Please can someone give some information regarding the filling speed of a empty pipeline to a sprinkler line?
In my case there was water hammer in a 6” line, The 16” firewater line was under 175 psi pressure and the opening time was 9 seconds. Is 3 feet per second more realistic? Or is there a NFPA standard that addresses this? Thanks in advance for your support! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I am working on a project with male and female restrooms in separate structures located near a park. The structures are roughly 500 sqft. The structures must comply with NFPA 101 for means of egress. I am trying to figure out travel distance requirements.
What occupancy would you classify the restrooms as? And in turn what would be the maximum travel distance if there is only a single door? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Anyone have experience with fire protection for a vehicle bridge?
I must review NFPA 502 but I wanted practical experience, too. The project information I have is minimal at this point, but I looked in NFPA 502 and assume some kind of dry pipe system to supply hydrants and potentially sprinklers on the bridge would be necessary at this point. Just looking for some guidance based on past experience. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are isolation valves allowed to be installed after dry valve for a standpipe system?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This week is the first of our 2020 PE Prep Series - it's 20-weeks worth of mini Fire Protection PE Exams. Each week we'll post the leaderboard here with the results of that week's exams. To see full leadership board and more details, visit the PE Prep Series page here. The Leaderboard lists the top total scores for the most recent three weekly exams for PE Prep Series participants. See the entire scoreboard here. Want to join in? It's not too late - the PE Prep Series is the ultimate PE Prep tool. It's a series of 1-hour, 10-question simulated PE Exams offered weekly with solutions immediately following each exam. Learn more here. Every week of the series is retroactive so you can still test yourself with past week exams
I have a situation in a locker room in which the lockers themselves were built too high resulting in only a 12" clearance instead of having 18". It's a B Occupancy (IBC), light-hazard with standard-coverage QR heads (12'x12' grid).
Could we feasibly swap the heads out for extended-coverage QR heads (16'x16') and meet the intent of NFPA 8.5.6 for clearance? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Question for AHJs and inspectors:
Do you occasionally see fire alarm strobes mounted on the ceiling that appear to be for a wall-mounted orientation (e.g. they are rectangular and have the word "FIRE" on the side)? I know some of these are actually for ceiling mounted applications but I've run across some that are wall-mounted only. I think the Wheelock brand might be an example? Stuff like this is hard to tell in the field for an existing building (with no documented cut sheets for what was submitted). Anyone have tips or tricks for this? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're determining fire sprinkler hazard classification for a cannabis grow facility. It is under International Fire Code occupancy F-1 and I would lean to Ordinary Hazard Group II as an Agricultural facility. However, I'm concerned with 23' high racks with three level of ABS plastic pans containing the plants in the flower rooms.
Would this are be considered storage and more specifically rack storage exceeding the OH II classification? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a new highrise building with a water storage tank/room for the fire sprinkler system. The entire room is the storage area.
Is sprinkler coverage required for this room? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a question id like a second opinion about. I have a client with a new build boat storage facility, approx 30 ft high, at one end on the ground floor is an office area with a suspended ceiling. The installers have used U-Bolt Mechanical Tee couplings to attach the drops to the branch line, and then hung 20-ft of 1" pipe as the drop.
What is the correct way to secure these drops? There is currently no lateral or vertical support. This is not in a seismic area. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Would like to take a moment and thank all of the contributors over the past month who have asked questions and shared your expertise to help others do great work too. I get to experience the unique bond we have in this industry, and I'm very thankful for that. Thank YOU for being a part of the forum here. Here are May's top contributors:
With June beings the summer-long PE Prep Series - 20 weeks of 10-question mini-exams that simulate the pace, difficulty, category mix, and question types of the Fire Protection PE Exam. We already have over forty registered examinees doing the PE Prep Series for this year. If you're taking the PE Exam this fall, join in now and be a part of our best online resource to help you pass the new computer-based exam! There's nothing on the market like this offering. Get more information here.
This building is an H-1 occupancy. There is an area of refuge on the 4th floor. The shelter-in-place Class 3 area of refuge is protected from interior and exterior hazards. There are vertical openings through all 4 floors. The UFC is governing.
Based on this, do the stairwells need to be intertied directly to the shelter-in-place area of refuge for an exit enclosure that is a direct accessible means of egress (we are providing accessibility provisions)? Does the shelter-in-place area need to be a smoke enclosure as well as the interconnected stairwell system? Based on this will both the stairwell and the shelter-in-place need to be pressurized to meet design intent? Both exterior and interior air is hazardous and a scrubber would be needed to inject air for stairwell pressurization. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Per NFPA 17A section 7.2 an owner's inspection is required for a wet chemical extinguishing system. I'm currently in the process of making a checklist for those systems at my site.
7.2.1 On a monthly basis, inspection shall be conducted in accordance with the manufacturer’s listed installation and maintenance manual or the owner’s manual. However, how often does the "outside world" comply with this requirement? I know at the previous site I worked at, we admittedly did not. Also, what are the tamper indicators and seals referred to in paragraph 7.2.2? 7.2.2 At a minimum, this “quick check” or inspection shall include verification of the following: ... (3) The tamper indicators and seals are intact. Not quite sure I know what NFPA is referring to there. Thanks in advance for all responses! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am dealing with a Military building. It is an H-1 occupancy. The building is currently 4 stories high.
This is not allowed per IBC based on means of egress. Has anyone made an argument based on UFC referring to NFPA 101 for means of egress related items to make an H-1 occupancy allowed to be more than 1 story? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For the 2016 NFPA 13 code book it appears that 8.15.1.2.6 and 8.15.1.2.8 contradict each other.
8.15.1.2.6* Concealed spaces formed by ceilings attached to composite wood joist construction either directly or onto metal channels not exceeding 1 in. in depth, provided the joist channels are firestopped into volumes each not exceeding 160 ft3 using materials equivalent to the web construction and at least 3-1⁄2 in. of batt insulation is installed at the bottom of the joist channels when the ceiling is attached utilizing metal channels, shall not require sprinkler protection. 8.15.1.2.8 Concealed spaces within wood joist construction and composite wood joist construction having noncombustible insulation filling the space from the ceiling up to the bottom edge of the joist of the roof or floor deck, provided that in composite wood joist construction the joist channels separated into volumes each not exceeding 160 ft3 to the full depth of the composite wood joist with material equivalent to the web construction, shall not require sprinkler protection. If you had a insulation up to the bottom edge of your joist wouldn't you be able to exempt protection per 8.15.1.2.8? Couldn't you call that out and not use the extra 3.5" required per 8.15.1.2.6? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 1 Section 13.2.2.2, a Class I standpipe is not required in buildings less than three stories or less than 50-ft high above grade.
If we have a huge industrial complex or storage occupancy of 60,000 square meters (645,000 sqft), should we not require a standpipe system if it is only one floor above grade with a total height of 40-feet? Looks strange to me. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When are sprinklers required in water cooling towers? Does NFPA 214 address this? What should I look for in a water cooling tower that would cue this requirement?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe My fire sprinkler system was poorly designed. Static fire water pressure is constantly at or above the relief valve rating. This causes the valves to constantly discharge. I can't rebuild the fire system.
Can I put two valves in parallel or in series to reduce pressure? Would that invalidate the system? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When does NFPA 101 take precedence over NFPA 13 in regards to omitting sprinklers in closets less than 12 sqft in area in individual dwelling units of new apartment buildings?
We have a 44-story high rise with 10 sq ft closets that are 2'x5' and we are trying to eliminate the sprinklers. NFPA 13 would require them since it is not a hotel or motel but NFPA 101 allows for the omission. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're designing a wood, NFPA 13 apartment with a flat TJI roof (engineered floor and roof joists) with batt insulation at the top of the TJI bays and drywall screwed to the bottoms of the TJI's.
The top floor units are protected using a wet system with the required 8 sprinkler calc. The architect wants to switch to sound channel (thin metal channel strips that run perpendicular to joists) which creates gaps between the TJI's and drywall ceiling. We informed him that with channel, the batt insulation would need to be at the bottoms of the TJI space - which would separate our pipe from the heated space and present freeze issues. Of course, he and the GC never have had this 'problem' with any of their other similar roof structures and they're looking at me, the bad guy, for a solution. Short of a complete roof re-design to trusses, what have others seen done with TJI roofs with sound channel in areas subject to freezing? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Have a project which has a remote fire department connection outside of the main building. The fire department connection has its own dedicated feed that goes from the remote FDC, underground, up into the building, where it connects to the fire sprinkler riser downstream of the backflow preventer.
The check valve for this line is required to be inside the building, so the main between the FDC and check valve in the building is intended to be dry. NFPA 24 (if that applies) allows PVC for underground water service in its table of permitted pipe types. NFPA 13 specifically states that galvanized steel is permitted to be used between the FDC and the check valve serving the FDC. I can't see where NFPA 13 would mandate pipe types for this arrangement. Is this underground FDC feed allowed to be PVC? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello all, two questions:
1) Can the rules of a beam obstruction also be used for a 4 ft (1.2 m) obstruction? Or does section 8.5.5.3.1 prohibit that arrangement? 8.5.5.3.1* Sprinklers shall be installed under fixed obstructions over 4 ft (1.2 m) in width. 2) Can the rules of a beam obstruction also be used for a 30 in (750 mm) against wall obstruction? The standard says sprinklers "8.6.5.1.2*... shall be arranged to comply with one of the following arrangements" Or does an obstruction against a wall have to comply with Figure 8.6.5.1.2(b) and then has to have a sprinkler underneath? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with a Dematic pouch sorter system? The fire sprinkler contractor stated "the pouch sorter utilizes a pouch to move products through the building from storage locations to packing locations. The pouch basically is a U shaped bag with shorter side panels to keep products in the pouch. The pouch is constructed with two holes on the bottom corners of the pouch. Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13." Has anyone dealt with a Dematic pouch sorter system?
The fire sprinkler contractor stated "the pouch sorter utilizes a pouch to move products through the building from storage locations to packing locations. The pouch basically is a U shaped bag with shorter side panels to keep products in the pouch. The pouch is constructed with two holes on the bottom corners of the pouch. Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13." Would any one disagree the pouch sorters are NOT open top containers? Or, why they should be considered Open Top containers? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Building owner is looking to lease some warehouse space for the storage of hand sanitizer…looking at the MSDS, I see it listed as a Class IB flammable.
Going to NFPA 30 and seeing section 16.5.2.7 would be the most appropriate…which then flips me to section 16.6.1 Scheme A as the Sprinkler arrangement. I have to look to see what design densities are needed for the ceiling spray heads and the in-racks. Is this the correct approach? Is NFPA 30 applicable here? Just wanted to make sure I’m not missing something. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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