The hot topic of AFFFs and PFOS. Where is the requirement stating foam must be used for fire protection for a diesel generator inside a building?
We're looking to eliminate the need for foam instead of replacing it with "fluorine" free foam. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments
I am designing the sprinklers for a building with unusual seismic criteria (it's designed to be seismically resilient and "floats" on seismic isolators).
The structural drawings note that design should be in accordance with ASCE 7-16 equation 13.3-4: Fp = ai ap Wp Ax / (Rp / Ip) I see from NFPA 13 (2022) appendix E that the simplified method is based on ASCE 7-16 equation 13.3-1. Do you think the NFPA 13 simplified bracing method can still be applied/adapted to this alternate equation (without hiring a structural engineer)? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can ESFR K-Factors be different within the same area, just at different roof elevations? The roof elevations here are dictating different design requirements. We have multiple ESFR sprinkler systems throughout a new building. The building has two different roof elevations, 38'-4" for the majority of the building, 43'-4" on remainder. We're under NFPA 13-2019 Edition.
The Contractor is wanting to use K-16.8 pendents at 52 psi at the low roof. K-25.2 at 40 psi at the high roof. One sprinkler system will cover the area where the roof steps, with two design areas (high/low roof). The outer thirds of the building separating the roof elevations will have full height concrete tilt-up walls. The center third only has a large open girder truss, with nothing stopping heat from traveling between the low and high roof. Section 7.2.2.6 says ESFR K-factor shall be selected for appropriate hazard. Sections 20.6.2.6 & 23.6.2 indicate ESFR shall be based on building height (amongst other things). Section 23.1.2 for Draft curtains, only reference the adjacent system with standard response sprinklers, not ESFR with different K factors. Section 27.2.4.9.2 says K-factors can't be mixed "for the purpose of minimizing sprinkler over discharge" (consolidated), which is not the case in this scenario. The Roof elevations are dictating the different design requirements. The K-25.2 sprinklers could be used throughout, but the low roof would only require 25 psi and the high roof 40 psi. However, there is a large cost savings going with the K-16.8 sprinkler for the majority of the building, along with additional storage allowance of exposed nonexpanded plastics. My thinking says that there should be some kind of draft stop at the girder truss/roof step to collect the heat, separating the two K-factor/roof elevations, but I am not finding a code reference that dictates it. Any input will help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an old existing 3 story building with a basement that is being converted into an apartment building. It used to be a small paint factory.
The architect is calling for a NFPA 13R system, which is understandable since it has all the qualifications for 13R. However, about 90% of the building is exposed 2x12 construction sitting on 10x14 wood beams. The only areas designated to get ceilings are the bathrooms and some kitchen soffits. That leaves most of the building having obstructed combustible construction, which creates a whole series of problems. First, I cannot find any residential sprinklers listed for installation below this type of construction. A smooth, flat or sloped ceiling is required for all of them. The AHJ is using the 2019 version of 13R, and Section 6.2.1.3 allows the use of QR sprinklers in dwelling units, but only if there are no more than four sprinklers in the dwelling unit. All of the dwelling units require more than four sprinklers, so it seems to be that I cannot use 13R at all? Could someone please tell me if I am interpreting and applying these code sections correctly? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a low-rise building with a manual wet standpipe and a sprinkler system. One combination riser is 6-inch and the other is 4-inch. Standpipes will be Class I.
The calculated sprinkler demand is 195 gpm (Light Hazard). My total manual wet standpipe system demand will be 750 gpm (500 gpm first riser + 250 gpm second riser). Does my fire pump need to accommodate the 750 gpm of the manual standpipe system, since they're interconnected? I know the fire department will handle the standpipe demand, but does the flow rating for the fire pump need to accommodate 750 gpm? I've searched but haven't found specific code references in NFPA 13 or 20 to address this sizing. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a airplane hangar that is over the 2,000 sqft threshold for a residential hangar, which makes it a Group III Hangar.
I'm having a hard time determining what fire suppression system would be necessary - would it be an NFPA 13 system? It's not really clear in NFPA 409. Thanks for any help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe All - talk me off the ledge, I have overanalyzed the requirement of dry sidewalls on porches and now I can't sleep until I get this answered:
Initial design of an apartment complex (3 story) called for an NFPA 13 (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system. The apartment complex will be covered in a cementitious siding and trim (non-combustible). Under NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2, sprinklers may be omitted from porches constructed with non-combustible or limited combustible materials in accordance with NFPA 703's requirements concerning non- and limited-combustible materials. The cementitious lap siding and trim exceeds the non-combustible requirements of NFPA 703. The plot thickens - the apartment design was changed to incorporate an NFPA 13R (2019 edition) fire sprinkler system instead of NFPA 13. Under NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provide above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V. The building construction Type is V-B but the porches are constructed of non-combustible materials - and this configuration/condition is not addressed in NFPA 13R. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.8 "All situations regarding sprinkler location and position that are not directly discussed in NFPA 13R shall be in accordance with NFPA 13. NFPA 13R does not address exterior porches constructed of non-combustible materials - since this situation is not addressed directly in NFPA 13R it is addressed in NFPA 13 which is detailed above (NFPA 13 Section 8.15.7.2). So based on the above - are sprinklers required on non-combustible porches in NFPA 13R systems? In addition, if sprinklers are required on non-combustible porches in an NFPA 13R system, why would NFPA 13 allow them to be excluded - as NFPA 13 should be the more "conservative" standard? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there anything in NFPA 13, 2019 that allows us to use Table 4.3.1.7.1 Discharge Criteria for Miscellaneous Storage Up to 12 ft in Height for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height?
NFPA 13, 2016 §16.2.1.2 Protection Criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height sends us to Table 13.2.1 for protection criteria (the same as miscellaneous storage). The 2016-2019 Roadmap provided in NFPA 13, 2019 shows §16.2.1.2 (and the associated sections) as deleted. NFPA 13, 2019 §21.4.1 provides protection criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Over 12 ft Up to and Including 25 ft in Height and §21.4.2 provides protection criteria for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Over 25 ft in Height, but there is no protection criteria provided in NFPA 13, 2019 Chapter 21 for Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Up to 12 ft in Height. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am coordinating a flow test with a contractor.
NFPA 291 Section 4.4.6 states "To obtain satisfactory test results of theoretical calculation of expected flows or rated capacities, sufficient discharge should be achieved to cause a drop in pressure at the residual hydrant of at least 10 percent. In water supply systems where additional municipal pumps increase the flow and pressure as additional test hydrants are opened, it might be necessary to declare an artificial drop in the static pressure of 10 percent to create a theoretical water supply curve." The contractor did not achieve the 10% pressure drop and asked if the "artificial pressure drop" option is a possibility here. I do not see anywhere in NFPA 291 or elsewhere explaining how to do this. Any recommendations on what to advise the contractor / how to even calculate the artificial pressure drop? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the correct way to fill a "Hydraulic Design Information sign" when using a "CMSA" approach?
For CMSA we do not have a typical design area and instead we are working for number of sprinklers and minimum pressure. The placards typically call for design area, density, etc. Thanks in advance for the input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How does NFPA define a "Revamp"?
In NFPA 13 2019, Section 29.5.2 states that "Calculations shall be provided to verify that the system design flow rate will be achieved" when revamping a hydraulically designed system. The problem me and my coworkers are having is that we cant agree on a definition of "Revamp" and NFPA does not seem to define it either. One opinion is that any "modification" constitutes revamping, and so any sort of modification will require calculations. Another opinion is that any sort of new addition to a system or hazard change requires calculations. We have almost always defaulted to just calc it and leave it be, but would love a more defined definition on when calcs are needed. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are sprinklers required for an H-3 Occupancy, retail fireworks (1.4g class) if less than 125lb?
IBC Section 415.1 states only need a automatic sprinkler if in excess of 125lb (25% of net weight of package fireworks). But, in Chapter 10 Table 1006.2.1, regarding means of egress, it says Not Permitted regarding H-3 units with no sprinkler system. Any help here is appreciated. Thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I came across a code that is in all NFPA 13's (at least 2013-2022 editions) that says sidewall sprinklers shall not be installed back to back (8.7.3.1.4 in 2016 edition).
When dealing with overhead garage doors with two doors directly adjacent to each other, I've seen two sprinklers installed back to back so often that I would consider it 'industry standard'. Are back to back sidewall sprinklers permissible for adjacent overhead door protection? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an airline opening a training facility in our jurisdiction. The building is fully sprinklered and has a fire alarm.
They wish to install a static airplane fuselage for training airplane cabin personnel. This would be a functioning fuselage with standard airplane doors with ramps. Has anyone had an experience with this? This is a fully sprinklered building so our thinking is the fuselage needs sprinkler coverage inside. Is this correct? This building has a fire alarm system so our thinking is the fuselage needs notification devices. Is this correct? The fuselage doors do not meet the code requirement for egress doors (locks, swing, etc), how is this addressed? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe May fire sprinkler coverage for an NFPA 13 system be omitted from inside an air shower?
Are there any square footage standards that would apply, or any other "exceptions" that would allow omission? This is in a large industrial factory with hazardous materials. The inverse question would be...is sprinkler coverage required inside an air shower? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The architect proposed to hang perforated metal mesh tiles 8" below the slab above. Multiple vertical fabric baffles are attached to these metal mesh tiles extending up to 14" below the ceiling. Which ceiling criteria should I apply here? It does not meet the requirements of the Open Grid ceiling (NFPA 13-2016, Section 8.15.14). It has only 8" above the ceiling. Also, it does not fall under the criteria of cloud ceiling. I have proposed uprights above the ceiling to protect the space above the ceiling & the fabric ceiling baffles.
Proposed pendent sprinklers below the ceiling at 12" below the ceiling. I've requested the architect to restrict the depth of fabric baffles to 12" below the ceiling to avoid obstructions. I have doubts on the activation of the pendents located below the ceiling since the ceiling tiles are perforated. Any suggestions on this proposed protection? Should the space between the fabric baffles be considered as ceiling pockets? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm reviewing a submitted set of sprinkler plans for a partial demo and rebuild at an existing sprinklered building with an existing fire pump. They do have an existing backflow that was not included in the hydraulic calcs.
I feel, like with any fixed loss pressure device, that it should be included in the new calcs regardless if it was existing. Am I on point with this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 6" feed main that will travel through a foundry.
The foundry temperature will get approximately 160 degrees (F). Should that sprinkler pipe need a heat shield to help keep the piping cool? I plan on welding the pipe that travels through the foundry, so no groove products will need to be installed in that environment. Thanks for input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I would like to get your thoughts on the intent of NFPA 409 7.7.3.5 which states "Discharge devices for the protection of columns within the remote area of the overhead sprinkler systems shall be included in the calculations for the overhead system."
When determining the remote area, should it be assumed that the column protection sprinklers are activated? In the specific case that I am referring to, if column sprinklers are not activated, the remote area of the overhead system does not fall around the columns being protected. If the column sprinklers are activated, the remote area of the overhead system shifts to fall around the columns being protected. My thought is that column protection sprinklers should be assumed to be activated when determining the remote area of the overhead system since a fire condition near the column has the potential to activate the column protection sprinklers and the remote area of the overhead system. If the column protection sprinklers is not included in determination of remote area, this fire condition could cause the system demand to exceed the available supply. What are your thoughts? Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm looking at a building that is a convent home (residential) but has a chapel, bedrooms, dining room, kitchen area and a few mechanical support spaces.
I would think the building would be classified as light hazard because that is what a majority of the building is. But some could argue that some of these spaces are Ordinary Hazard 1. Should the tank be sized on the Ordinary Hazard 1 demand or the Light Hazard demand? Thanks for you help, Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a scenario where the fire riser will be installed after the building is completed.
If the pipe is located below the pedestrian walkway area, is this required to comply with NFPA 13, 2022, (6.4.2.2.2 In locations where freezing is not a factor, the depth of cover shall not be less than 30 in. (750 mm) below grade to prevent mechanical damage. [24:10.4.2.2.2])? See the attached sketch. If yes, what is the possible solution? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Consider a multi-story building with floor control valves (FCV) at each level.
Is a main drain test required to be performed at each of the floor control valves and tagged at startup? Is a hydraulic placard required at each floor control valve? If so, is the base of riser pressure to be the pressure at floor control valve or at the base of riser in the sprinkler riser room? Is it allowable to hang each of the floor's hydraulic placard together at the main riser in the sprinkler riser room? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When conducting main drain test on a sprinkler system with a fire pump, should the pump be on or off?
AHJ generally wants the pump to be on in this area. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an overhead ESFR sprinkler system under NFPA 13-2013 with K22.4 sprinklers.
There are ducts 14-inches to 20-inches in diameter that will be installed at 30-ft. What is the required separation distance for them to be considered separate obstructions where we can omit sprinklers below, as long as they are 24" away (horizontal) from the overhead sprinklers? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 Section A.9.4.2.5 provides additional detail for temperature ratings of sprinklers located near horizontal hot air diffusers.
However, I cannot find anywhere that says specifically where the measurement is to be taken from. Is the 2'-6" measured from the edge of the diffuser in all directions, or should it be measured as a 2'-6" radius from the center of the diffuser? Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
ALL-ACCESSSUBSCRIBESubscribe and learn something new each day:
COMMUNITYTop June '24 Contributors
YOUR POSTPE EXAMGet 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
FILTERS
All
ARCHIVES
July 2024
PE PREP SERIES |