We are designing a clean agent system for electrical rooms located within a high-rise building. We are proposing having dedicated clean agent releasing control panels for the electrical rooms, and a separate building Fire Alarm Control Panel.
Is it mandatory to connect fire/smoke dampers (and other shutdown devices) in the electrical room with the clean agent releasing panel, or can these be connected to the building fire alarm system? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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We have a 40-foot tall steel construction building, with lumber strapped and stacked, stored in 20-foot high solid piles.
The building is unheated. The building owner has been told by another fire sprinkler contractor that this will require ESFR sprinklers. The owner would prefer a dry pipe system. We have researched NFPA 13, 2019 edition. It looks as if Chapters 20 and 21 will allow a dry pipe system for this application using CMDA sprinklers. Anyone else have experience with a scenario like this? What path would you recommend? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a small project (13,800 sqft total) which is a four-story, all residential apartment building, using mostly CPVC pipe. The system is under NFPA 13R.
The city supply is very poor, so we will have a fire pump that meets NFPA 20 (as is required by 13R). The pump is an 8-HP, 70 PSI at 75 GPM. Is a jockey pump necessary with such a small fire pump? Normally, for our large commercial NFPA 13 projects, a jockey pump is not even a discussion because we don't want the main fire pump (500 - 1,500 gpm) cycling on just to support system maintenance pressure. For such a small project with a significantly smaller fire pump, is there any harm in not providing a jockey pump? The question is not based on cost - the pump room is microscopic and we're already having trouble fitting in all the equipment and controllers as is. Appreciate you all - thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This question pertains to hydraulic calculations at the supply and sprinkler sides of a deluge system:
Our example using rough numbers; the deluge system requires 4,000 gpm based on density requirements through the building. This is the system demand. Now suppose you have a strong water supply. The water supply actually provides 8,000 gpm based on main capacity testing. This is the system supply. Now my question is, the pipe is wet up to the deluge valve. There is about 50-feet between the deluge valve and the hazard. It is understood that the system demand is 4,000 gpm, but within the pipe network, is it necessary to size the pipe for a deluge system based on 8,000 gpm on the supply side? Until the water begins discharging through the deluge nozzles, the 8,000 gpm will be surging through the pipe network to reach the nozzles, correct? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a minimum distance clearance required or recommended from the fire sprinkler and the top of a stacked washer dryer in small closet?
What is the reason for the clearance needed? I heard that 4” is needed for the clearance rather than the standard 18” in a public area. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am building out a space that has been vacant for multiple years. The space has a hydraulic elevator that travels 1 floor. There is a sub that is ushering the elevator contractor through the certificate milestone with all the adjacent trades.
He has proposed to change out the Class III-B hydraulic fluid with a Hydro-Safe or equivalent non-combustible fluid in order to work around the NFPA 13 requirement for a pit sprinkler and pit detection to be installed. My question is, does swapping the petrol-based fluid to a bio-equivalent have any long-term effects on the pump, pistol, seals, gaskets, etc.? Also, how do I make sure this is the fluid that remains in use for the life of the certificate? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project that includes a 3,500 sqft unheated loading dock. We're in the initial design stages of the project.
Based on your experience would you recommend we specify a heat trace or dry pipe sprinkler system for the loading dock? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A special thank you to those who helped bring in the new year with great feedback and discussion. Here's the top ten commenters for January 2021:
We have a project where the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) is requiring zone control valves and dedicated pipe from the standpipe to any IT rooms and sprinklers in elevator shafts.
As a result, we have three zone controls for each floor: (1) the floor sprinkler system, (2) IT rooms, and (3) any sprinklers in elevator shafts. Is there a code or standard basis for this requirement, or would it be specific to the AHJ? We're doing the work either way for this project since the AHJ is requiring it, but I would like to know for future projects. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I was wondering if maybe there are some calculators or wizards that guide a selection of CMDA sprinklers for storage applications.
We work with multiple standards (Vds, EN, NFPA) and sometimes it takes a long time to find the right point on the curve out of NFPA 13. It would be great to have a tool to verify that density and multipliers were all chosen properly. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a building that used to be a business occupancy but the new occupant wants to now use the occupancy as a church (assembly).
The building is not sprinklered and has no fire alarm system. The new occupant load is 279 people. The problem is the main entrance is on ground level but the second rear exit is below ground level to exit the building. Is the second rear exit below ground level acceptable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If a fire sprinkler systems is designed for "life safety" purposes, should not a primary and standby fire pump be provided? Why are standby pumps not required to improve reliability for these systems?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a building with a double check backflow assembly on the suction side of a fire pump. Normally there is a minimum of 10 pipe diameters of vertical plane pipe just before the suction flange.
Is the double check backflow allowed within that distance? Are there requirements for the backflow to have flanges vs. grooved connections? A colleague said the control valve should be OS&Y rather than butterfly on the suction side only. Why would this be the case? I would assume the OS&Y would reduce turbulence better than a butterfly, but wouldn't the checks also cause turbulence? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an exhaust system serving a welding and metal fabrication lab at a school. They will utilize 70% ferrous metal and the remaining will be a mixture of stainless steel, coated steel and aluminum.
The largest duct diameter at the building exit is 30" round. The dust collector will be located on the exterior of the building and in a freezing environment. Will I need to provide fire suppression within the ductwork both inside and outside as well as within the dust collector? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am currently working on an existing high rise building that requires a fully automatic sprinkler system to be added and the AHJ is requiring a water tank to be added on the property to serve as a secondary supply.
There is no room for a secondary supply. Can a pool be used to substitute a water storage tank that will supply the building through fire pumps? What codes could back up this option? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a maximum all-thread rod length called out in NFPA 13?
This application isn't for seismic, but a general hanger for pipes 2-inch and under in diameter. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a project where a feed main is running through an unsprinklered space to get to a sprinklered area. I've heard that sprinkler pipe needs to be protected by sprinklers so we are trying to figure out if this is an actual requirement or not.
We are talking about putting uprights on the feed main in the unsprinklered area to protect the pipe but I can't find anything in NFPA 13 that actually requires the pipe to be protected. Does anyone know if this is a requirement or not? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When would you consider an obstruction no longer an obstruction, vertically below an ESFR sprinkler?
If the top of storage has to be 36" wouldn't 36" be the cut off? Or do the obstruction rules go the floor? I have a warehouse that has 2 x 4 light fixtures which are 6'-0" below the roof deck, and am wondering whether these are considered obstructions. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Regarding fire sprinkler system flushing of a wet-pipe gridded system; NFPA 13 Section 16.6.4 “All branch lines on gridded systems shall be arranged to facilitate flushing”.
We are doing a project which has more than 50 branches in a gridded system. Do all these branch lines need to be provided with a flushing capability? How is this commonly achieved? FM Global data sheets say to provide a small nipple between two flexible couplings, assuming removal of the nipple to flush the lines. Are there alternatives to this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project with a typical compressed air dry sprinkler system in an unconditioned attic space (site is at 44 deg latitude). The system is 22 years old.
Site maintenance person reports that they've had issues with this system for at least 15 years. Frequent and repeated leaks, predominately pin holes in the mains. They try to repair before the system gets wet, although not always in time. They recently replaced a 3 inch main and found that it was about 30% filled with sludge. Sludge was dark brown, almost clay like, sludge. Any thoughts on how such a large volume of sludge can accumulate in a dry system? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a mass notification system design. We have always called for any speaker/strobes in close proximity to the microphone to be shutoff during live announcements to prevent feedback.
Is there an actual recommended distance away that all speakers located within this distance should be shutoff? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have been asked if a 20+ year old wet pipe sprinkler system we installed into a paint application room is the correct method of protection for a specific paint product that is currently being used.
The MSDS sheets for a few of the products they now use indicate protection with dry chemical, foam, or water fog. I have been told that the MSDS sheets typically refer to the product as its being stored and not necessarily as its being applied. The storage is not happening in this room of course, but in approved fire-rated storage cabinets outside the area. None of the typical requirements for alternate protection are met per NFPA 33. Basically other than the product data sheets, this is a run of the mill paint application area. Nothing automated or fancy. Anyone have any experience with a similar situation? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do liquid nitrogen storage rooms need to be fire-resistance rated?
According to NFPA 55 (2016 Edition) Section 6.4.4, gas storage rooms need to be 1-hour fire rated, but it just seems odd since nitrogen can be used as an extinguishing agent. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When applying NFPA 13R to a mixed-occupancy (R-2 and S-2) building, what is the definition of "incidental"?
The building in question is three stories of residential over a parking garage designated for residents only. Each residential floor is approximately 2,000 sqft and the garage is approximately 3,000 sqft. The building is type V-A (wood, combustible) throughout. IBC 2015 Section 509 defines incidental as constituting less than 10% of a given floor. Does this entire building require a full NFPA 13 system? If possible, please provide a code basis, thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe My question is when the discussion of dirty sprinkler heads comes up I get told only lint , hair and fuss count.
What I see quite often is discoloring from what I assume oil running down the pipe to the head. I also often see the red glass turned to black or gray. Do these sprinklers need to be cleaned, and if so, how is it done? Air or vacuumed doesn’t always work. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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