NFPA 1 Section 13.2.2.2, a Class I standpipe is not required in buildings less than three stories or less than 50-ft high above grade.
If we have a huge industrial complex or storage occupancy of 60,000 square meters (645,000 sqft), should we not require a standpipe system if it is only one floor above grade with a total height of 40-feet? Looks strange to me. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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When are sprinklers required in water cooling towers? Does NFPA 214 address this? What should I look for in a water cooling tower that would cue this requirement?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe My fire sprinkler system was poorly designed. Static fire water pressure is constantly at or above the relief valve rating. This causes the valves to constantly discharge. I can't rebuild the fire system.
Can I put two valves in parallel or in series to reduce pressure? Would that invalidate the system? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When does NFPA 101 take precedence over NFPA 13 in regards to omitting sprinklers in closets less than 12 sqft in area in individual dwelling units of new apartment buildings?
We have a 44-story high rise with 10 sq ft closets that are 2'x5' and we are trying to eliminate the sprinklers. NFPA 13 would require them since it is not a hotel or motel but NFPA 101 allows for the omission. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're designing a wood, NFPA 13 apartment with a flat TJI roof (engineered floor and roof joists) with batt insulation at the top of the TJI bays and drywall screwed to the bottoms of the TJI's.
The top floor units are protected using a wet system with the required 8 sprinkler calc. The architect wants to switch to sound channel (thin metal channel strips that run perpendicular to joists) which creates gaps between the TJI's and drywall ceiling. We informed him that with channel, the batt insulation would need to be at the bottoms of the TJI space - which would separate our pipe from the heated space and present freeze issues. Of course, he and the GC never have had this 'problem' with any of their other similar roof structures and they're looking at me, the bad guy, for a solution. Short of a complete roof re-design to trusses, what have others seen done with TJI roofs with sound channel in areas subject to freezing? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Have a project which has a remote fire department connection outside of the main building. The fire department connection has its own dedicated feed that goes from the remote FDC, underground, up into the building, where it connects to the fire sprinkler riser downstream of the backflow preventer.
The check valve for this line is required to be inside the building, so the main between the FDC and check valve in the building is intended to be dry. NFPA 24 (if that applies) allows PVC for underground water service in its table of permitted pipe types. NFPA 13 specifically states that galvanized steel is permitted to be used between the FDC and the check valve serving the FDC. I can't see where NFPA 13 would mandate pipe types for this arrangement. Is this underground FDC feed allowed to be PVC? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello all, two questions:
1) Can the rules of a beam obstruction also be used for a 4 ft (1.2 m) obstruction? Or does section 8.5.5.3.1 prohibit that arrangement? 8.5.5.3.1* Sprinklers shall be installed under fixed obstructions over 4 ft (1.2 m) in width. 2) Can the rules of a beam obstruction also be used for a 30 in (750 mm) against wall obstruction? The standard says sprinklers "8.6.5.1.2*... shall be arranged to comply with one of the following arrangements" Or does an obstruction against a wall have to comply with Figure 8.6.5.1.2(b) and then has to have a sprinkler underneath? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Has anyone dealt with a Dematic pouch sorter system? The fire sprinkler contractor stated "the pouch sorter utilizes a pouch to move products through the building from storage locations to packing locations. The pouch basically is a U shaped bag with shorter side panels to keep products in the pouch. The pouch is constructed with two holes on the bottom corners of the pouch. Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13." Has anyone dealt with a Dematic pouch sorter system?
The fire sprinkler contractor stated "the pouch sorter utilizes a pouch to move products through the building from storage locations to packing locations. The pouch basically is a U shaped bag with shorter side panels to keep products in the pouch. The pouch is constructed with two holes on the bottom corners of the pouch. Dematic and their European team has gone through a testing process to prove that the pouches do not need to be considered an Open Top container per NFPA 13." Would any one disagree the pouch sorters are NOT open top containers? Or, why they should be considered Open Top containers? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Building owner is looking to lease some warehouse space for the storage of hand sanitizer…looking at the MSDS, I see it listed as a Class IB flammable.
Going to NFPA 30 and seeing section 16.5.2.7 would be the most appropriate…which then flips me to section 16.6.1 Scheme A as the Sprinkler arrangement. I have to look to see what design densities are needed for the ceiling spray heads and the in-racks. Is this the correct approach? Is NFPA 30 applicable here? Just wanted to make sure I’m not missing something. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am interested if anyone is aware of any research or article that provides guidance on the lowest water velocity that is acceptable for performing a C-factor calculation for a 6” pipe?
I am curious if there is a lower flow velocity where the Hazen-Williams equation may not be valid. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Looking for an answer to a basic discussion point concerning sprinkler spacing. A pendent sprinkler is on a 10'-0" ceiling which is 4'-0" away (horizontally) from a sprinkler in a lower wide soffit, at 8'-0".
Based on the higher sprinkler being so close to the edge of the soffit, the soffit creates an obstruction for the higher sprinkler. However, the lower sprinkler should it activate will undoubtedly throw water to the floor space directly below the higher sprinkler, yet neither sprinkler will directly spray the other. Are these two sprinklers (one at a higher elevation and one at a lower elevation) required to be a minimum of 6-ft apart horizontally? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello Fire Pro People! I am retrofitting an existing stand alone fire pump room.
The existing design had both an electric fire pump and diesel fire pump for back up. We are getting rid of the diesel, and going with just one electric fire pump. The existing building has a sprinkler system, fed from the piping in the Fire Pump room. We would like to get rid of sprinklers. Are they required by code? And can anyone tell me what classification this building is by IBC standards? I read through them all, and I didn't feel that the Fire Pump building fit into any of the categories. Thanks for any love you can send my way! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I haven't had any experience doing site calculations before, but I'm curious how it works from a practical standpoint. Fire Flow is required by the International Fire Code here locally, and there's guidance (albeit not formally adopted) in Appendix B of the IFC for a total demand. Additionally, there's hydrant spacing requirements for any particular building, and guidance on how far the hydrants can be from a building.
In order to determine how the hydrants are fed (dead-end vs. looped and size of pipe), are there specific flow and pressure amounts that each hydrant has to be calculated at? Is it similar to a standpipe calculations where each hydrant has to have a specific flow? I'm not performing the design work myself, but I'm just curious how that is typically done and pipe size determined. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an inspection question regarding quarterly checks on low air supervisory devices on dry systems.
Is it okay to simply "jump off" the device when not doing a full or partial trip to simply make sure it hits the panel? I feel like I'm doing a disservice inspecting using this method, but I've seen it a lot. Unfortunately for me, it's been a crapshoot lately on what dry valve is going to go haywire when I drop air via an Inspector's Test Valve or at the riser. I'm thinking of just recommending a bleeder valve to be installed and go the easy route, saving both myself and customers a lot of anxiousness. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A manufacturing facility is considering an air-supported dome facility. This would consist of a pressurized interior fabric dome structure. To date, they've managed not to require sprinkler protection for air-supported dome facilities.
Does the structure type like this have any bearing on sprinkler requirements? I don't see a code path for not requiring sprinkler protection, but want to be sure I'm fair in my evaluation.Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There are restoration companies like Servpro that store furniture in large boxes in warehouses (some are wood and some are metal) for restoration. I have been told that the boxes are considered temporary since the items are restored and then moved back into the facility where it came from, but they can still be in the warehouse for months packed with all types of furniture.
NFPA 13, 2016 Table A.5.6 specifically lists "Storage container- Large container storage of household goods" as an example of a commodity that is not addressed by NFPA 13. I'm not intentionally picking on servpro because there are other companies like this, but servpro happens to be a popular one in my area so this is the example being used. See an example of wooden storage boxes in the warehouse here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyPxTr2Tgg 1) Has anyone else protected an occupancy similar to this and can provide some insight? Do the boxes need to have sprinklers dropped in them while they are in the warehouse? 2) If this situation does fall into the "Large storage containers" not addressed by NFPA 13, does anyone know what standard I can utilize to adequately protect this space? I appreciate any feedback. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Many listed hanger fasteners have their own weight limits. When I calculate the allowable hanger spacing for different size pipes, should I be using the Ultimate Pullout, UL Test Load, or FM Test Load?
Just looking at the Sammys for Wood Vertical (https://www.swfastener.com/pdf/ITW%20Sammy.pdf), for instance - some of the wood screws can have three different load values and I'm not entirely sure which I should be using to determine the appropriate hanger spacing for a sprinkler system. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A 5-story parking garage has a noncombustible ventilation shaft that is accessible through a door at the lowest level. The top of the shaft is covered by an open grate. The requirements of NFPA 13 2019 edition (Section 9.3.3) call for a sprinkler at the top and bottom of the shaft. I would like to omit one or both, but can't find a good code justification.
The sprinkler at the top will be extremely difficult to install/service, and has nothing above it to collect heat. The one at the bottom seems more appropriate in case of trash accumulation, but will need to have an aux. drain since it is served by a dry system. We all know that drum drips in remote locations behind locked doors tend to have a higher likelihood of freeze ups. This scenario doesn't seem much different than a large piece of mechanical equipment that has an access point for service and is not intended for occupancy. It's simple for me to just design it with the heads, just curious if anyone had good arguments for or against omitting them. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Any BIM sprinkler coordinators here? What is your experience in estimating design effort for BIM Coordination?
Do you charge by the head or by hour? The last hospital I coordinated took 4 hours per sprinkler. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There is a commercial structure that has been sprayed with an application of polyurethane foam insulation above drop ceilings within a Type II-B constructed building.
Cut sheets for material with liquid-applied intumescent coating would indicate it may comply with the definition of limited combustible material by NFPA 13. Based on cut sheets for applications the reference is to a Type V construction and the project that it is being utilized in is a Type II-B construction therefore we have required fire sprinkler protection above ceilings. My question is: would the application of this polyurethane foam insulation constitute a combustible concealed space, required to follow NFPA 13, Section 8.15.1.1? Section 2603 of the IBC address installation of foam. 3.3.16* Limited-Combustible (Material). Refers to a building construction material not complying with the definition of noncombustible material that, in the form in which it is used, has a potential heat value not exceeding 3500 Btu/lb (8100 kJ/kg), where tested in accordance with NFPA 259, and includes either of the following: (1) materials having a structural base of noncombustible material, with a surfacing not exceeding a thickness of 1⁄8 in. (3.2 mm) that has a flame spread index not greater than 50; or (2) materials, in the form and thickness used, having neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, and of such composition that surfaces that would be exposed by cutting through the material on any plane would have neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, when tested in accordance with ASTM E84, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, or ANSI/UL 723, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials 8.15.1.1 Concealed Spaces Requiring Sprinkler Protection. Concealed spaces of exposed combustible construction shall be protected by sprinklers except in concealed spaces where sprinklers are not required to be installed by 8.15.1.2.1 through 8.15.1.2.18 and 8.15.6. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are office privacy pods such as Framery O, Q, and Q2 required to have sprinkler protection in the United States?
Their literature says there is no need for installing sprinklers within them in Europe? Here is a link to an example: frameryacoustics.com Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2019) Section 9.4.3.2 states that quick-response sprinklers shall not be mixed with any standard-response within a compartment unless some conditions apply.
9.4.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 9.4.3.3, 9.4.3.4, or 9.4.3.5. Those conditions don't apply in my case and I know there's a definition of a compartment in 3.3.38. However, from a practical standpoint if the compartment in question is a corridor, would you include the adjoining offices in the compartment? These offices are likely to have their doors open and are not on any magnetic door closing devices. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do sprinkler service entry sizes have a minimum mandated size for an NFPA 13 system?
If I do not have a hydrant on an incoming line and can prove hydraulically that a 3-inch service entry works, is that acceptable under 13 or only permissible in 13R or 13D projects? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an open wood-truss concealed space above the highest ceiling and below the roof for a project that is getting sprinkler protection under NFPA 13.
The architect is proposing using spray foam closed-cell insulation to fill the entire concealed space. Does this qualify as non-combustible, such that filling the entire void would allow omission of sprinklers within this space? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I would like to double check on the coverage of attached garages in an NFPA 13R system.
NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.6: Sprinklers shall not be required in... other concealed spaces that are not used or intended for living purposes or storage and do not contain fuel fired equipment. NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.5: Sprinklers shall not be required in any ... carports, and stairs that are open and attached. There is a separate reference other than 6.6.6 on the coverage of attached garages. The way I read it, they must be covered under this standard. Please advise. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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