I am interested if anyone is aware of any research or article that provides guidance on the lowest water velocity that is acceptable for performing a C-factor calculation for a 6” pipe?
I am curious if there is a lower flow velocity where the Hazen-Williams equation may not be valid. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Looking for an answer to a basic discussion point concerning sprinkler spacing. A pendent sprinkler is on a 10'-0" ceiling which is 4'-0" away (horizontally) from a sprinkler in a lower wide soffit, at 8'-0".
Based on the higher sprinkler being so close to the edge of the soffit, the soffit creates an obstruction for the higher sprinkler. However, the lower sprinkler should it activate will undoubtedly throw water to the floor space directly below the higher sprinkler, yet neither sprinkler will directly spray the other. Are these two sprinklers (one at a higher elevation and one at a lower elevation) required to be a minimum of 6-ft apart horizontally? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello Fire Pro People! I am retrofitting an existing stand alone fire pump room.
The existing design had both an electric fire pump and diesel fire pump for back up. We are getting rid of the diesel, and going with just one electric fire pump. The existing building has a sprinkler system, fed from the piping in the Fire Pump room. We would like to get rid of sprinklers. Are they required by code? And can anyone tell me what classification this building is by IBC standards? I read through them all, and I didn't feel that the Fire Pump building fit into any of the categories. Thanks for any love you can send my way! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I haven't had any experience doing site calculations before, but I'm curious how it works from a practical standpoint. Fire Flow is required by the International Fire Code here locally, and there's guidance (albeit not formally adopted) in Appendix B of the IFC for a total demand. Additionally, there's hydrant spacing requirements for any particular building, and guidance on how far the hydrants can be from a building.
In order to determine how the hydrants are fed (dead-end vs. looped and size of pipe), are there specific flow and pressure amounts that each hydrant has to be calculated at? Is it similar to a standpipe calculations where each hydrant has to have a specific flow? I'm not performing the design work myself, but I'm just curious how that is typically done and pipe size determined. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an inspection question regarding quarterly checks on low air supervisory devices on dry systems.
Is it okay to simply "jump off" the device when not doing a full or partial trip to simply make sure it hits the panel? I feel like I'm doing a disservice inspecting using this method, but I've seen it a lot. Unfortunately for me, it's been a crapshoot lately on what dry valve is going to go haywire when I drop air via an Inspector's Test Valve or at the riser. I'm thinking of just recommending a bleeder valve to be installed and go the easy route, saving both myself and customers a lot of anxiousness. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A manufacturing facility is considering an air-supported dome facility. This would consist of a pressurized interior fabric dome structure. To date, they've managed not to require sprinkler protection for air-supported dome facilities.
Does the structure type like this have any bearing on sprinkler requirements? I don't see a code path for not requiring sprinkler protection, but want to be sure I'm fair in my evaluation.Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There are restoration companies like Servpro that store furniture in large boxes in warehouses (some are wood and some are metal) for restoration. I have been told that the boxes are considered temporary since the items are restored and then moved back into the facility where it came from, but they can still be in the warehouse for months packed with all types of furniture.
NFPA 13, 2016 Table A.5.6 specifically lists "Storage container- Large container storage of household goods" as an example of a commodity that is not addressed by NFPA 13. I'm not intentionally picking on servpro because there are other companies like this, but servpro happens to be a popular one in my area so this is the example being used. See an example of wooden storage boxes in the warehouse here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyPxTr2Tgg 1) Has anyone else protected an occupancy similar to this and can provide some insight? Do the boxes need to have sprinklers dropped in them while they are in the warehouse? 2) If this situation does fall into the "Large storage containers" not addressed by NFPA 13, does anyone know what standard I can utilize to adequately protect this space? I appreciate any feedback. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Despite all of the changes that have impacted everyone worldwide, I still can't believe it's May already. Here's a shout out to our top April 2020 Contributors here on the Daily Forum. You all are the glue that makes the dialogue here special.
Many listed hanger fasteners have their own weight limits. When I calculate the allowable hanger spacing for different size pipes, should I be using the Ultimate Pullout, UL Test Load, or FM Test Load?
Just looking at the Sammys for Wood Vertical (https://www.swfastener.com/pdf/ITW%20Sammy.pdf), for instance - some of the wood screws can have three different load values and I'm not entirely sure which I should be using to determine the appropriate hanger spacing for a sprinkler system. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A 5-story parking garage has a noncombustible ventilation shaft that is accessible through a door at the lowest level. The top of the shaft is covered by an open grate. The requirements of NFPA 13 2019 edition (Section 9.3.3) call for a sprinkler at the top and bottom of the shaft. I would like to omit one or both, but can't find a good code justification.
The sprinkler at the top will be extremely difficult to install/service, and has nothing above it to collect heat. The one at the bottom seems more appropriate in case of trash accumulation, but will need to have an aux. drain since it is served by a dry system. We all know that drum drips in remote locations behind locked doors tend to have a higher likelihood of freeze ups. This scenario doesn't seem much different than a large piece of mechanical equipment that has an access point for service and is not intended for occupancy. It's simple for me to just design it with the heads, just curious if anyone had good arguments for or against omitting them. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Any BIM sprinkler coordinators here? What is your experience in estimating design effort for BIM Coordination?
Do you charge by the head or by hour? The last hospital I coordinated took 4 hours per sprinkler. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There is a commercial structure that has been sprayed with an application of polyurethane foam insulation above drop ceilings within a Type II-B constructed building.
Cut sheets for material with liquid-applied intumescent coating would indicate it may comply with the definition of limited combustible material by NFPA 13. Based on cut sheets for applications the reference is to a Type V construction and the project that it is being utilized in is a Type II-B construction therefore we have required fire sprinkler protection above ceilings. My question is: would the application of this polyurethane foam insulation constitute a combustible concealed space, required to follow NFPA 13, Section 8.15.1.1? Section 2603 of the IBC address installation of foam. 3.3.16* Limited-Combustible (Material). Refers to a building construction material not complying with the definition of noncombustible material that, in the form in which it is used, has a potential heat value not exceeding 3500 Btu/lb (8100 kJ/kg), where tested in accordance with NFPA 259, and includes either of the following: (1) materials having a structural base of noncombustible material, with a surfacing not exceeding a thickness of 1⁄8 in. (3.2 mm) that has a flame spread index not greater than 50; or (2) materials, in the form and thickness used, having neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, and of such composition that surfaces that would be exposed by cutting through the material on any plane would have neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, when tested in accordance with ASTM E84, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, or ANSI/UL 723, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials 8.15.1.1 Concealed Spaces Requiring Sprinkler Protection. Concealed spaces of exposed combustible construction shall be protected by sprinklers except in concealed spaces where sprinklers are not required to be installed by 8.15.1.2.1 through 8.15.1.2.18 and 8.15.6. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am sincerely interested in how COVID-19 has impacted this great community of fire protection professionals that contribute to this website.
How has COVID-19 impacted your ability to do your particular job in the fire protection industry and what struggles have you had to overcome due to it? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are office privacy pods such as Framery O, Q, and Q2 required to have sprinkler protection in the United States?
Their literature says there is no need for installing sprinklers within them in Europe? Here is a link to an example: frameryacoustics.com Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2019) Section 9.4.3.2 states that quick-response sprinklers shall not be mixed with any standard-response within a compartment unless some conditions apply.
9.4.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 9.4.3.3, 9.4.3.4, or 9.4.3.5. Those conditions don't apply in my case and I know there's a definition of a compartment in 3.3.38. However, from a practical standpoint if the compartment in question is a corridor, would you include the adjoining offices in the compartment? These offices are likely to have their doors open and are not on any magnetic door closing devices. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do sprinkler service entry sizes have a minimum mandated size for an NFPA 13 system?
If I do not have a hydrant on an incoming line and can prove hydraulically that a 3-inch service entry works, is that acceptable under 13 or only permissible in 13R or 13D projects? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an open wood-truss concealed space above the highest ceiling and below the roof for a project that is getting sprinkler protection under NFPA 13.
The architect is proposing using spray foam closed-cell insulation to fill the entire concealed space. Does this qualify as non-combustible, such that filling the entire void would allow omission of sprinklers within this space? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I would like to double check on the coverage of attached garages in an NFPA 13R system.
NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.6: Sprinklers shall not be required in... other concealed spaces that are not used or intended for living purposes or storage and do not contain fuel fired equipment. NFPA 13R 2010 6.6.5: Sprinklers shall not be required in any ... carports, and stairs that are open and attached. There is a separate reference other than 6.6.6 on the coverage of attached garages. The way I read it, they must be covered under this standard. Please advise. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Got any information on what a cannabis extraction facility would fall under design-wise per NFPA 13?
The facility is less than 5,800 sf and may not need anything per the AHJ but I want to be sure what the correct hazard classification should be in case they do decide to put a sprinkler system in, should anyone have information more than what an "agricultural facility" is listed in 13. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 2016 Edition, Section 7.1.5 Air Venting.
A single air vent with a connection conforming to 8.16.6 shall be provided on each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. Does the term "utilizing" mean that any system using metallic pipe in any part of it should have an air vent? Would a system with steel verticals and CPVC horizontals then require an air vent? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What do people typically use for estimates? Does everyone have a program like Bluebeam and Excel or do people purchase programs online?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Low-piled storage versus design /area method: I notice a quite huge difference about requirements of NFPA 13 for using low-piled storage where where is no limitation for area and the method when the virtual storage height is used to determine according to the clearance the area / density method.
For example we can have a building with a high clearance with Group A plastic storage as low-piled at 5-feet (1.3 m). Using the low-piled method, you need Ordinary Hazard Group 2 0.20 gpm/sqft @ 1,500 sqft (7.5 l/min/m² @ 210 m²) when using ara /density method, but with the virtual height you need more than 0.73 gpm/sqft (30 l/min/m² @ 230 m²). In my example, the area of low piled storage is a very huge area 170,000 sqft (10,000 m²). What is the actual criteria? Thanks for your comments. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a 5-story residential multi-family stick-built structure on a concrete podium in the DC Metro area. The building is fully sprinklered including interstitial spaces. The pre-engineered roof trusses are 30" deep with 6" of R-30 rigid insulation above the top chord of the truss.
Based on the image below, can the space be protected with a wet system or would a dry system be necessary? In regards to a dry-pipe system with a fire pump on the supply; is a jockey pump required on the wet portion between the pump and the dry-pipe valves?
I have to assume the answer is yes, since pressure needs to be maintained in this line if leaks develop over time. Please confirm/advise. Thanks in advance! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does an elevator require sprinkler protection if the building is not required to have sprinklers?
We had an electric traction unit with rated belts in a non-combustible shaft that just changed to a hydraulic elevator in a non-combustible shaft. Would ASME A17.1 or the elevator material itself mandate sprinkler protection? This project is under 2018 IBC and 2018 IFC. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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