Does anyone have experience installing a heat detector in a cold environment (~ -40 degrees C or F)?
I'm thinking a rate-of-rise detector would probably be the right type based on what I've read but having problems finding a cut-sheet that supports that operating environment. Normally this type of space would get a dry sprinkler but some things have led to trying to think "outside the box" for this project. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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In NFPA 13 (2007 Edition) Section 8.15.5.5 is the term "passenger elevator" specifically different from a Freight Elevator?
NFPA 13 Section states that sprinklers are not required for noncombustible hoistways where the car enclosure meets ASME A17.1, but it states specifically "passenger elevators". Does this mean that a hydraulic freight elevator will definitely need a sprinkler at the top and at the bottom of the shaft? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Under NFPA 72 fire alarm manual pull stations are required on both sides of grouped openings over 40-feet in width and within 5-feet of each side of the grouped openings.
What about grouped loading bays or loading docks? Are manual pull stations required on each side of grouped overhead doors? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are inspecting an existing fire sprinkler building for an upgrade to an Extra Large Orifice (ELO) system.
We performed a hydrant flow test and noticed a 14 psi static loss between the hydrant, 185-ft of 8-inch ductile, 2 elbows and 8 feet of elevation rise to the supply side of the RPZ backflow preventer. We recorded 73 psi at hydrant and 59 psi at the number 1 test cock on the RPZ while static. I spoke with the water authority and they confirmed no meter or check valve on the 8" fire line; it is straight into the valve room plus 2 elbows. The building is 20 years old and the pump test provided 120% of rated capacity. Any idea how the static pressure inside the building is 14 psi less? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where we're not sure about how to address protection of movable storage racks.
The cold storage facility requires a double-interlock pre-action system where the temperature can reach down to -4 deg F (-20 deg C). The storage consists of movable racks, 39 feet (12 m) tall, with a roof height of 46 feet (14 m). Our biggest concern would avoiding in-rack sprinklers, since the racks are intended to be moveable. Our understanding is that NFPA 13 considers movable racks as multiple row racks but there's not clear guidance there. We looked into ESFR as an option, but believe ESFR are not listed to be used with a pre-action system. Is there a recommended solution/design path for ceiling-only protection on a double-interlock pre-action system? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a high-rise 24-story residential condominium building. The construction is non-combustible, but the local jurisdiction is requiring balcony protection regardless of what NFPA 13 says on the matter.
Am I correct in thinking of using residential heads in the units, as well as in the adjoining corridors and the balconies, providing that I meet the minimum 0.10 gpm/sqft density required for an NFPA 13 system? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Around here we're all about promoting the industry by bringing together a community of experts and sharing best practices. It's too important of an industry not to promote. We like to celebrate that efforts where we can, and today I'm happy to announce the overall Top Ten Contributors of 2020. These experts have, on average, shared quality expertise throughout eight months out of the year and have help countless people, like myself, learn a little more each day. The Forum wouldn't be what it is today without all of the commenters and especially these professionals:
We'll be sending out 2020 Top Contributor Plaques as a small thank you for contributing to the great conversations that do nothing but help the industry learn and grow. If you happen to be Colin, Casey, or Mike, please email me at [email protected] so I can get your thank you gift headed your way. A couple of questions about an electric vertical inline fire pump:
(1) Is it necessary to build a rated room around a fire pump that is located in a boiler room that is already 2-hour rated construction? (2) Is it required to have a concrete base poured below a vertical fire pump if we can bolt the pipe flange stand to a concrete floor? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone have any insight to the sprinkler design criteria requirements you would use to protect a small volatile manufacturing facility?
The building is a standard pre-engineered metal building with z-purlins, is insulated, uses corrugated siding, etc. It stands 20-24 feet tall at the peak. Any help is appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Editor's Note: Hope you had a restful holiday break and are just starting a better year than the last. Around here we're feeling refreshed and excited about the potential for this website in 2021. We greatly appreciate your comraderie and expertise around here as it's one of the things we're most excited about heading into the new year.
If you're new around the Daily Forum - you can submit a question, anonymously, at any time by using the links on the right-hand side or the "Submit a Question" link under any of the previous questions. You can search old questions with the Search bar at the top-right-hand side of the Daily page, and you can jump to specific categories on the right-hand-side of the Daily page. You can also subscribe anytime here. We're thrilled you're hangin' around and hope you find the information here helpful! Happy 2021! I've been seven years in the chair, and the most thankless job I encounter on every project is - reviewing the site utility plan and picking it apart.
I've now made my own rule that I will only point the civil engineer's mistakes once, early in the project, and when it comes time to stack the riser, pressure test, etc, all I can say is "I pointed that out to you on Aug 11 2020 email." Am I going about this the wrong way? SHould I even be investing energy into correcting the engineer with the stamp? Recent example is a two story building with concrete tees. We're adding third and fourth floors from new structural members. The underground man took the site utility and started digging. Check valve was exposed above ground (supposed to be in pit) and the FDC was connected to the underground on the system side of the backflow preventer. Now he has to dig it up, cap the tee after the backflow preventer, and run it around and inside the building. The job requires a small pump (CL1 manual wet standpipe), and the underground man wasn't happy. All I was doing was point out wrong installations before it was too late. I'm always left thinking, "this isn't even in my scope of work, but it affects everything downstream." Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm looking for guidance on protecting a bag house/dust collector at a sawmill facility.
The unit comes with outlets attached for nozzles/sprinklers. Some of the existing ones at the facility are protected with anit-freeze systems, some with dry systems. Is there a reason you would need to use anti-freeze in lieu of a dry system for this application? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are there ever scenarios where fire sprinkler branch pipe would not be perpendicular to structure?
As I understand it, running perpendicular to structure affords installers the most flexibility in hanging locations and avoids having to use trapeze supports throughout a project where support from the floor/roof assembly isn't possible. Just curious if branch pipe perpendicular to structure is an always scenario or just a prevailing scenario. Thanks in advance, appreciate your all's input. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I recently acquired a project where I'm replacing all sprinkler in a residential home. Apparently the original sprinkler heads were the OMEGA that were recalled some years ago on.
These specific heads had a K=factor of 3.9 and although I have found only one direct replacement with the 3.9 K=factor, they are not cheap! My question is what would be an alternative replacement to these k-3.9 Omegas, and would replacements need to be the same k-factor? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm hoping somebody can point me in the right direction on this. I'm doing a VA Clinic in California. Somehow I didn't notice that there were OSHPD requirements but I am having trouble finding information that clearly identifies the different hanging and bracing requirements that we'd need to abide by.
I know in the past we had to use clevis hangers, rod stiffeners, use solid strut for all seismic bracing etc, but back then I was a fitter and it was on my plans already. Where is there guidance on the acceptable hanging types to meet OSHPD requirements? I appreciate your help. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Any thoughts or experience in system life expectancy for dry sprinkler systems with galvanized versus black steel pipe, and compressed air versus nitrogen?
Our firm (MEP/FP consultants) typically recommends nitrogen and galvanized pipe for dry sprinkler systems, and we often get the value engineer requests to accepts compressed air and/or black steel. Any studies or data that support your experience? Approximate cost savings you might expect from each? Thanks in advance! Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe It's clear that gridded dry systems are no longer allowed by NFPA 13 (for the last 30-40 years or so), but what about a looped dry system?
If I understand it correctly, gridded dry systems are not allowed because water delivery time is typically hindered, and gridded systems may not be set up to drain particularly well. Is that true of looped dry systems? If the total volume of a looped dry system is small (200-500 gallons), and water delivery time is not an issue, I could see major advantages to looping a dry system for areas like parking garages or attics. Thanks in advance. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What would be reasons to use a hydraulic design point other than the lowest flow rate just over 1,500 sqft of remote area?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Some fire pump assemblies have closed-test loops. When we circulate water through this closed test loop, why does the suction pressure not increase?
I'd be interested in understanding the physics of the situation a little better here. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How can we prevent the formation of algae or microorganisms in water storage tanks for fire protection due to the water being stagnant?
Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I was looking through the International Building Code and have not found a requirement for a fire sprinkler riser room to be enclosed by a fire-rated wall.
Are there any requirements other than clearances to service the equipment for this room? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Will high intensity sound, 200 dBP, activate either glass bulb or fusible link sprinklers?
Is there any documentation that supports either way? Thank you. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a lot line sprinkler installation with sprinkler piping being recessed in a furred out wall. We are concerned about pipe freeze ups.
Since we are connected to the existing system that serves the entire floor it would not be feasible to do a dry pipe system or add anti freeze. Does anyone have a good calculation to determine if the piping will freeze in the wall cavity? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have two questions on projects in areas that are seismic regions D or more restrictive and flood prone/high water table:
NFPA 13 (2016) Section 9.3.4.3 where clearance is provided by a pipe sleeve, 4 in. pipe & larger require 4 in. larger pipe sleeve. So if we are providing a below grade wall or floor penetration, that experiences high water tables and flooding. What are the most common practices to prevent ground water intrusion through the pipe sleeve? NFPA 13 Section 9.3.4.8 states - where required, the clearance shall be filled with flexible material that is compatible with the piping material. Is this most likely a water proofing or rated caulk? My original thoughts lead me to something like a Metraflex Sliding MetraSeal or any pipe sleeve seal on the market, but think that would go against the internal pipe sleeve clearance requirements. Any suggestions on best practices? Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm putting together design-build requirements for a new single-story construction building. The flow test pressure is borderline in my opinion so I'll be calling for a fire pump.
When is a water storage tank required with a pump? I don't think the system needs one, but I just want to be sure. Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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