Architect here with a fire code question. We have a fully sprinklered building (ESFR), of Type II-B, tilt concrete construction.
The fire pump room is located on an exterior wall, and the only door into the pump room is from the exterior. We have 1-hr rated construction separating the fire pump room from the rest of the building. The fire marshal is telling us that the exterior wall and door also have to be rated. I responded by pointing out the fire pump is required to be protected from the surrounding building, and that it does not need to be protected from the exterior, so exterior wall and door should not have to be rated. Fire marshal disagrees and pointed to NFPA 20 4.14.1.1.2. That section does not specifically state that separation is required from the rest of the building, although Section 4.14.1.1.1 right before it does make that distinction, just like IBC/IFC do. We have solid concrete walls that are inherently fire rated construction, so typically I would just say ok and label them rated. The issue is we are required to have ventilation in the pump room per NFPA 20, so we have a makeup air louver in the exterior wall. If we rate the wall, then my understanding is we will have to put a fire/smoke damper on that louver, which is added cost and unnecessary in my opinion. Is your understanding that all walls have to be rated as the fire marshal is saying, or just the walls between pump room and rest of building? I've done many buildings of this type in multiple states and this is the first time I've been told this. I'd appreciate your insight, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I am running 8” and 4” water storage tank fill and suction lines above ground in an exterior utility yard. Is lateral and longitudinal bracing required for aboveground piping supported on pipe stands located outside of a building, in an exterior utility yard? Due to underground conflicts with spread footing foundations the underground piping has to be routed above ground to the final location and connection points on the tank. The pipes are supported by 1’-6” non adjustable pipe stands attached to slab on grade. This project is located in a seismic zone and the seismic force factor does not exceed 0.5Wᵖ and I am using ACI 355.2 qualified anchors as required by NFPA 13 2016 Edition. Sections 9.3.8, A9.3.8, 9.3.8.1, and 9.3.8.2. The pipe stands I am using are following the NFPA 13 2016 Edition prescriptive method detailed in sections 9.2.6.3.2, 9.2.6.4.2, 9.2.6.4.4.1, and 9.2.6.4.5.1, I’ve also attached a detail for clarification. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
If I have a PIV installed, is it required to be tied into a fire sprinkler system?
I work at a campus style facility with a fire water supply loop for fire sprinklers. We have a couple of buildings that do not have a fire sprinkler system, however, there is a PIV outside the buildings that are in the closed position. I am assuming they were installed for "future use" assuming a fire sprinkler system gets installed. Is there an NFPA code reference that requires the PIVs to be "in service" or used for their intended purpose, or are we code compliant with them being "for future use"? I do have a concern with responding fire units incorrectly assuming that there is a fire sprinkler system in these buildings due to the PIVs being installed. What are your thoughts? Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am running into a lot of old systems that do not have hydraulic placard and some of them are old Pipe Schedule system.
Has anyone ran into an old pipe schedule system were the fire marshal is requesting hydraulic placards and if so has anyone found a way to satisfy the requirements without surveying the entire system and running new calculations? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a fire pump room with three 75 HP main pumps that operate sequentially depending on the flow required.
Can we install all 3 controllers within a single enclosure? If not, what standard, code forbids this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe My understanding is that sprinklers are not required in a commercial warehouse that was constructed prior to the code requiring them. So, how would a requirement apply regarding Open Rack Storage and Closed Rack Storage and the requirement for in-rack sprinklers? This is a large warehouse with no sprinkler system. They are using 2x6's for rack spreaders and completely covering them with no flue space. Several issues there... what drives the requirements on the storage practices? Even though the building doesn't require sprinklers, do the code requirements regarding the rack storage apply? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are you required by NFPA 24 to enter a building underneath the foundation, or can you enter a building with the the fire service main from the side of the building?
Many are under the impression that due to the fact all illustrations in NFPA 24 show the fire main entering under the building, footing/foundation, that this suggests that it is a requirement. Please can someone shed some light on this? Regards. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Four-story office building wants to shut down five large air handlers nightly. Purpose is to lower energy costs when building is unoccupied. This will cause all fire/smoke dampers (FSDs) to close (the smoke detectors in return ducts need minimum operational air velocity).
The FSDs are mostly original from 1985-1988. Only UL tested for 5000 cycles and no dynamic. I cannot find a code reference to prohibit this and believe that the FSDs are already near the end of their functional lifespan. Many have been replaced due to bad actuators, binding jack shafts and missing blades. Anyone know of a code reference to prohibit this use or when a FSD must be replaced? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have two above ground 20,000 gallon (US) PET storage tanks, used for food grade oil, located inside in a manufacturing facility, all above ground. I went through NFPA 30 back and forth, still couldn't find what sort of sprinkler protection do I need for this. Cooking oil is considered a Class IIIB liquid, and all references I could were about all other classes, but IIIB. The only reference to IIIB seems to be in smaller containers, in the rack, but no tank storage mentioned. How do I go about designing protection for the tanks? What about the surrounding area? Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Do you include a loss in your flow-through tees (the straight run) on CPVC for NFPA 13R or NFPA 13 Systems?
We're finding a loss through one software provider's default setting, whereas another by default does not include a loss on the flow-through CPVC tees. We'd like to find the correct approach. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where window sprinklers are being used as part of a 2-hour Fire Barrier.
The engineer wants the second water source to be enough to run for two hours (that would mean we'd need about 40,000 gallon tanks) in an already-designed building. Others are arguing that the primary water source needs to meet the listing but the secondary water source can be 30-minutes as that's when the fire department would hook up and operate. What is the required duration for the secondary water supply? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone have any code experience with standby generators and NFPA 110, 2022 Edition?
Can the capacity of a generator fuel tank be base on connected load, or connected load demand on the generator, or the rated capacity of the generator? Most electrical engineers that we deal with for health care occupancies (99%) spec fuel capacity based on the 100% rating of the generator. It appears that if you base the fuel capacity on connected load and you had a connected load of 60% of the rated capacity of your generator and you add additional load to your emergency system of up to 80% and your tank was based on 60% you would have a problem and would require a larger tank. But if you base your fuel tank capacity on 100% generator capacity you will always have the correct amount of fuel capacity regardless of the load. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I recently obtained an annual full flow fire pump flow test data via hose monsters and pitotless nozzles to open atmosphere.
I am attempting to develop a graph from scratch in Excel for the fire pump curve or honestly, find one that is already built on line where I can plug in each data point for the Actual results (Churn, 100%, and 150%) and Theoretical/Design (Churn, 100% and 150%). Does anyone know of such available graphs or advice on steps to develop in Excel (or a different program)? Thank you in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe On an exterior patio, is there anything in NFPA 13 that allows you to protect from the building to the column only? Or are we required to protect to the edge of the overhang? In this case it makes the difference in extended coverage dry sidewalls and a dry system. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I’m designing a wet system protecting storage utilizing 25.2K ESFR pendents.
I have some continuous obstructions greater than 2-ft wide (less than 4-ft wide) that require protection below the obstructions. It's under the 2018 IBC, and NFPA 13 2019 edition. The obstructions are mostly closely-spaced conduit groups. I would like to place the ESFR pendents within 3-inches to the side of the group with the deflector 6-inches below and have listed water shields installed for intermediate level rack type protection. Chapter 9 in NFPA 13 seems to allow this, but it is in a subsequent section dealing with obstructions greater than 4-ft wide. The verbiage and the annex figure do not clearly state the width of the obstruction. This protection scheme will be clearly denoted and submitted to the AHJ, but I want to get input if there are any potential issues with this design. Any questions, comments, or concerns will be greatly appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I’m trying to find some back-up support for sprinkler protection hazard classification for propane (LPG) golf carts, stored at a Golf Course.
Judgement wise, I can go with OH2, as NFPA 13 says vehicle parking garages are OH1, and repair garages are OH2. But.... is there anything included somewhere in any of the NFPA standards that addresses this specifically? Any help is greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does an FDC have to be hydrostatically tested every five years?
Is that commonly done as part of a 5-year test? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Recently, my son introduced me to some examples of AI that affect my everyday routine, such as email automation and task management.
This got me wondering if there are any ongoing developments in AI specifically aimed at enhancing fire protection systems and fire sprinklers? It seems like we are only scratching the surface of what this technology can achieve in this crucial area. Look forward to the discussion. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a good dividing line for when to have a 6" vs 8" service main to a building?
Assuming light & ordinary hazard with 52,000 sf as an area limitation for a riser, is there a limit on number of risers to a 6" main? What is the driver on how to predict that service main size? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an underground water storage tank (concrete) with two compartments; Tank 1 and Tank 2. Our fire pumps are vertical turbine type: 1 duty and 1 back-up. Both suctions of each fire pump are located only at Tank 1.
Is this code compliant? Or shall we relocate the suction of the back-up fire pump into the Tank 2? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it a requirement to have a 42-inch handrail on the edge of the building, due to the standpipe hose connections and this needing to be accessible for the fire department use? If it's required, it seems that handrails could apply under IBC 2018 Section 1015.6. Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a Pathway Survivability of Level 1 allowed for an elementary school and high school?
If not, what kind of protection would be required? Are there any performance alternatives? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of bidding an existing building. Here is the rundown: the ground level has parking. Above that is a 3-hour horizontal separation between the parking and the first floor. Then there are three stories of apartments above the separation. I’m looking at this as two separate buildings and am proposing NFPA 13 for the parking and NFPA 13R for the apartments above. It will also have two dry standpipes on the exterior stairwells. My question comes to sprinkler protection on the outside exit corridors and the egress travel distance. NFPA 13R Section 6.6.5 clearly states that the exit corridors are not required to be protected. Life Safety code allows a means of egress travel distance of 250' for a sprinklered building. If the building is sprinklered per NFPA 13R with the above ommision, can the 250' egress travel distance be used? Thought/Comments appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Needing some help here to diagnose what might be the issue for frequent running of an air compressor for our dry sprinkler system.
Our dry system compressor runs every 5 minutes for about 15 seconds. The air gauges on the system never shows any change but the gauge on the compressor tank shows a loss of 15 pounds of air pressure on a 60 psi tank. The compressor goes on when the tank gauge reaches 42 pounds and pumps up to 56 pounds; the compressor stays on for 15 seconds then kicks off. Any advice? Are the gauges reading normally? Where should I start here? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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