In the NFPA series of standards, is there a requirement for a water line supplying private fire hydrants to have backflow protection?
I am working on a project where the fire marshal is requiring double check detector assemblies to be installed on six private fire hydrants. The line serving the hydrants has no other connections to it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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UL does large scale testing reports conducted under paid private clients, and has commissioned some pretty large tests on certain fire sprinklers with a specific protected target and issue report.
How many AHJs would accept a performance-based design or something submitted in compliance with the old Chapter 21 on Alternative Fire Protection? Do you have recommendations or concerns with these alternative approaches that you wish to have addressed? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 3-family building with parking garage and three floors over parking for a total of four floors.
According to the IBC, a standpipe is required; my question is - is the standpipe required in all stairs? We have two stars which are less than 30-feet between the stairs. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the recommended practice to protect Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS)?
NFPA 855 states that if the BESS is not a walk-in unit, then fire suppression is not required. How do you define a "walk-in unit"? If any suppression is not required in side the unit, is there any requirement for systems protecting the outside? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A thread to discuss more on Post-Indicator Valve requirements from our blog hits series.
Original 2019 article link: www.meyerfire.com/blog/post-indicator-valve-required-for-my-project Our customer stores pieces of metal u-channel strut and all thread rod that are stacked on steel cantilever racks. There are no pallets. Packaging is by wrapping of steel bands. Everything is non-combustible.
Since the commodity is non-combustible, Table 435.5.1 for high piled racking does not apply, correct? It seems to apply only to combustible commodities. Therefore the 12-foot high limitation triggering high-pile storage requirements would not apply, right? We hope to avoid the requirements of Table 435.5.1 since the building does not meet the fire department access door requirements even though it does meet the requirements for automatic sprinklers as well as smoke and heat removal. I can't find a code section to cite to AHJ for what is not required on non-combustible commodities. Like proving a negative. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What are the requirements for sprinkler coverage for baffled ceilings? In Florida we use the 2016 edition of NFPA 13. I know that the sprinklers have to be within 12 inches of ceiling for heat collection. The contractor says the pictures shown are correct. I think they need to place a 12 by 12 above the baffle for heat collection? I found 8.6.3.4 Minimum Distances Between Sprinklers.
If sprinklers are installed above and below the ceiling, a baffle needs to be installed around the lower sprinkler to avoid cold soldering. Cold soldering occurs when discharged water from the sprinkler above cools the thermal element of the sprinkler below, preventing or delaying its activation in the event of the fire. The required baffle will prevent that water from contacting the thermal element of the sprinkler, thus circumventing the possible issue. Talked to some folks and we need the product paperwork as it may mention sprinkler coverage. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
Does NFPA 13D require trapped air to be removed in a sprinkler system?
In the 2016 NFPA 13, Section 7.1.5, Air Venting - a single air vent for a sprinkler system, with a connection conforming to 8.16.6, shall be provided in each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. I am using CPVC with anti-freeze in most residential systems. Is there a code requirement for a vent for what I'm doing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do I, as an AHJ, address contractor scope limitations?
Project where an installer presents plans to replace 328 sprinklers and is changing some pipes out. Many times the installer says they're only responsible for pipe from the riser - not for a hydrant flow tests. What is the best way to navigate this to be sure that there's still sufficient water available? It could be a one-for-one replacement, but what if there's significant work being done - what code basis is there to make sure than an effectively-new system can work with today's water supply? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We had a tip last week about being able to comment and share ideas from our articles on the Blog and our hits series - and we love the idea. The hope is to open a thread once-a-week concerning the Blog topics so we can expand and discuss in greater detail. My hope is that this doesn't take away from the Forum at all (again, just once a week), but allows opportunity for further discussion where it's wanted. This thread is for Components of a Fire Sprinkler, with our high-quality image above (right-click to download and save).
Thanks everyone! - Joe This is something that has always confused me.
NFPA 2019 Section 10.2.7.3.1 states that continuous or non-continuous obstructions more than 18" below the deflector have to meet Section 10.2.7.3. The only big requirement I see is that items over 4-ft in width need a sprinkler underneath them. Does that mean that a sprinkler 18.1" located directly above a square duct that is 3'-11" wide does not need to worried about and the perceived obstruction of the duct is fine by code? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are you allowed to have a valve off the standpipe feeding a hose valve that is not in the stairwell?
Working in a high rise building with two stairwells. It is dual fed with combination riser standpipes. On the tenant space there is a hose valve and they want a butterfly on the feed for the hose valve, always thought that was not allowed but couldn’t find it. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Occasionally, additional hose valve connections are required due to the failure of meeting a 150-ft / 200-ft travel distance to a hose connection.
Can you put a hose valve connection on a sprinkler system without a standpipe? How do you reflect this in a hydraulic calculation? A most-remote standpipe would require 500 gpm in a standpipe calculation. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project where a foam-water system is installed for two generator rooms. The rooms are on the same floor and some distance from each other, which is also on the same floor as the fire pump, which is served by a vertical foam bladder tank.
I've read here before that it's possible to have one proportioner serving both of them, but is it possible to have one deluge valve to serve both rooms? If so, do I need to add motorized butterfly valves to regulate the flow direction? Really appreciate the input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am currently evaluating a 7-story building that is being partially renovated and has an existing standpipe system (2 standpipes), but no sprinklers. My scope was to add sprinklers to the renovated areas, creating a partially sprinklered building.
The lack of pressure is leading the AHJ to require a fire pump due the 100 psi required for the standpipe system. While the standpipe requires the fire pump, hydrant flow tests indicate that there may be sufficient pressure to supply a sprinkler system. My question is two-fold. Is there really such a thing as a non-combined sprinkler/standpipe system where they are both required? They both get their water supply from the same source. Also, can I evaluate supplying the sprinkler system through a separate riser that tees off before the fire pump, while the fire pump supplies only the standpipe, significantly reducing the size of the pump? The pump would be sized for 750 gpm total, 500 gpm @ 100 psi to the remote hose connections, and 250 gpm to the second standpipe. What would that sprinkler calculation look like? Would the sprinkler calculation remove the hose stream allowance and replace it with the 750 gpm to consider the flow to the pump/standpipes? The flow potential is there based on the hydrant flow test just not the pressure for the standpipes (and it's close for sprinklers). I'm just wondering if I can give the client and rest of the design team options. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a question in regards to hydraulic calculation and hose stream allowance being added to the calculations.
When and why are they added to your hydraulic calculations? Is this specifically required under NFPA 13 somewhere regardless if a standpipe is required or provided? Any insight or clarification would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a zone control valve assembly be installed downstream of another zone control valve assembly?
If there is a fire in Zone A (the primary zone), Zone A's flow switch would activate. If there is a fire in Zone B (the secondary zone), Zone A and B's flow switches would activate. Not sure whether this is permitted under NFPA 13 or 72. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I use the HASS software to design, now I've a criterion of design of 20 ESFR K-25.2 @ 75 PSI, but I'm questioning if the density requirement and area of demand that I'm considering are correct. The values are 2.18gpm/ 2000 sqft. Is this correct? Additionally, the pump that I should be considering is approximately 4500 gpm and when I try to run the program it says that the source is incapable of feeding the grid. Thank you for help.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the most appropriate Commodity Classification for wood chips (used for grilling) and wood mulch (used for pet bedding)?
The packaging consists of sealed paper bags that are palletized and secured with stretch wrap (plastic film) to stabilize the load onto the pallet. My initial thoughts would be a Class III Commodity, but NFPA 13 2019 Table A20.4(b) mentions "wood patterns" as being Class IV. I'm not certain of the definition of "wood patterns". Your input and wisdom is much appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a remodel project with XL pipe and push fit fittings. When there is a leak in the fit fitting what product or method can be used to change the pipe to schedule 10 with grooved fittings? Can XL be grooved? Is a roustabout approved for XL? There is virtually no information on the internet regarding XL except for notable failures with the material. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The 2016 and 2019 standards are allowing ESFR designs that the 2022 standard does not.
For example: A warehouse with a ceiling at 35-ft. Group A Unexpanded Exposed on floor probably to 20-ft. Sprinkler design is ESFR, (12) K16.8 pendents @ 52 psi. This was okay in 2016 and 2019, but now, 2022 does not allow for this. Does this mean they completed tests that show this 12@52 K-16.8 WILL NOT work? Is there fire testing to prove this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a wet system. Inside the system is a walk-in freezer, which has less than 10-ft of rack storage, Class I-III commodities, protected by dry pendent sprinklers from the wet system. Ceiling height is 11'-9".
Using the chart for Miscellaneous Storage up to 12-ft in Height (Table 13.2.1 of NFPA 13, 2016 Edition), thi is to use the design curve for OH2 on Figure 13.2.1. Since the ceiling height is so low, and it's equivalent to an OH2 design curve, there's a request to apply Figure 11.2.3.2.3.1 and reduce the design area within that freezer by 37% and use the smaller hydraulic design area. However, it's not an Ordinary Hazard area, it's a Miscellaneous storage area that is equivalent to an OH2 curve. Are you permitted to use the remote area reduction for Miscellaneous Storage here? Thank you for your time. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an original 17,000 sqft building built during the 1970's which has a masonry deck on OSB boards on steel structure. The original building had a continuous gypsum board ceiling at the bottom of the trusses, and no sprinkler system. Lay-in ACT ceilings have been added over the years and a lot of the gypsum board has been damaged or removed.
Due to the exposed OSB boards, we've listed the structure as Type V-B. As part of the new project in the building, we will be adding a sprinkler system. Is there a code-compliant way to avoid sprinkler protection above the ceilings? Perhaps a post-factor spray-on fire retardant? Thank you for your input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I recently heard of an incident where the fire water return from a flow meter on a fire pump was connected low from a tank and it did not work appropriately. So as a solution they decided to connect it high on the storage tank a and somehow this configuration fixed the issue.
Both connections would have the same head due to elevation so it does not make sense to me why one would work but not the other. Why does it matter if you connect a return loop to a fire water storage tank near the top of the tank rather than near the bottom? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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