We have been asked to supply FDC signage for an existing building with combined sprinkler/standpipe system.
The AHJ has requested that both minimum and maximum operating pressure be included on the sign. Can we use existing hydraulic data information or should it be recalculated including friction loss from the fire hose to pumper truck? Also, what would constitute the maximum pressure in a combined sprinkler / Class III system? Would it be max 175 psi at all 2-1/2” hose connections if there are pressure regulations devices on the 1-1/2” hose valves? Thanks in advance in helping us sort this out. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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During a recent life safety walk through of a popular boat show, I observed the installation of a temporary Class I wet standpipe system to supply various hose valves along the docks.
I noticed the 4-inch Silver-Line Schedule 40 PVC pipe was being supported randomly. I recorded distances ranging from 9 to 15 feet. I consulted with NFPA 14 then 13. NFPA 13, Table 17.4.2.1 shows "NA" for 4 inch CPVC pipe. In viewing the cut sheets for the listed pipe, the support spacing is 7.7 feet at 73 degrees F. My question is, is my methodology correct on how I went about getting the correct spacing in order to advise the the contractor? Please advise. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project that is Type III-A, wood frame construction, with an NFPA 13 sprinkler system.
The client is weighing options of filling floor truss cavities with non-combustible insulation versus adding sprinkler coverage within these floor-ceiling cavities. Does anyone have recent experience to know the relative cost impact of adding sprinklers within these floor cavities? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project that has a dedicated fire water supply storage tank. Is an FDC required on this setup?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a warehouse with all steel parts and materials. There are no pallets.
If these parts and materials are stored on 25-foot high racks, does the design criteria of Chapter 16 in NFPA 13 (2016 Edition) apply for a commodity like this? Am I missing something critical here? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a 300 sq ft control area (1 hour rated) for storage of Class IB flammable liquid. The 2018 IBC Table 307.1 permits 120 gallons (no sprinklers required), but this amount can be doubled if the building is equipped with an NFPA 13 automatic sprinkler system.
Our client would like to store about 165 gallons in the room (3 drums). The building is fully sprinklered. What is the required sprinkler design density for this room? We considered Ordinary Hazard Group 2 (same as lab area it supports) or Extra Hazard Group 2 (only occupancy in NFPA 13 that mentions flammable liquids). If EH2, then the minimum water demand becomes quite large: 0.4 x 2500 + 500 gpm hose = 1500 gpm (Under the 2016 NFPA 13 - Section 23.4.4.2.5). Could you help point us in the right direction? Thanks to all in advance for helping us hunt this down. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an S-1 occupancy. It is a privately owned storage unit (no public access) used for the storage of exotic cars, maybe 3 vehicles in total. The space is about 1,400 square feet, and is fire sprinkler protected. There is a wood-framed mezzanine at the back of the unit as is about 300 square feet.
The question that has come up is if the underside of the open wood stairs to the mezzanine needs to be protected with fire-retardant gypsum board? There is no sprinkler coverage under the stairs. The mezzanine may be built out by the owner to have a few chairs, a couch, a television, etc. Digging into the code talks a lot about accessibility but not so much about the fire resistance requirements for the stairs. I have the found following in the 2015 IBC (code we are under): 1104.4 Multistory buildings and facilities. At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story and mezzanine in multilevel buildings and facilities. Exceptions 1. An accessible route is NOT required to stories and mezzanines that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels. This exception shall not apply to: ...and... 4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story or mezzanine with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story or mezzanine shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below. So...the accessibility issue is covered but nothing about the rating of the stairs that I can find. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe I am not looking in the correct code section. Thank you! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a calculation program to estimate the water delivery time for a dry system, that works on AutoCAD?
Looking for options in this area. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe First - I really appreciate this forum. The discussions here are great - sometimes quick & easy and sometimes with a lot of depth. Also appreciate the variety of perspectives we each see the same industry. So thank you. Also - my question today isn't concerned about the people on this forum. It's clear that you care and are knowledgeable, so wanted to lay that out there.
At what point am I obligated to report negligence? I've seen some projects out for bid that are five-story apartments with NFPA 13D issued on the drawings. I've seen hazard criteria that is (black and white) below code minimums out of NFPA 13. Underground pipe stretching 40 feet before stubbing up into a building. Not small things-big things. Not just missing the mark - but clearly unprofessional and probably considered to be gross negligence by some lawyers (I am not one). They're signed/sealed and put out to the world for bid. I don't see this all the time, but it does come up. I'm not an AHJ but my guess is they'd have much worse horror stories. These things can all be corrected - RFIs or plan review or with inspections. But at what point is something so far off that it's not a mistake and is actually something that should be reported? Are AHJs handling these things behind the scenes and I just don't know about it? I don't want to be the bad guy and I don't feel like it's my personal fight to stand in front of each state board and state a case why someone else missed something. But at what point do I become part of the problem if I don't report it? Do states have anonymous tips for the license boards? Has anyone gone this route with any real effect? Again I want to be part of the solution, not the problem, but I also don't quite feel like this is my life's crusade either. I am curious how others would go about addressing this issue and what advice you might offer to a younger person in the industry. Appreciate the conversation, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Given the HFC (hydrofluorocarbon) production phase-out, what are you currently recommending to your clients and customers regarding the installation of new FM-200 systems at this time?
Just curious to get a status check on how you approach this challenge. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When is C900 PVC allowed below buildings before the transition to metallic pipe for spigot stub up?
I often see municipal rules to keep non-metallic pipe no closer than five feet from the building foundation. Where does this requirement come from? I have no problem with this practice but would like some code justification to discuss this with contractors. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project that consists of a concrete deck and a solid decorative wooden ceiling suspended about 1-foot below the deck. I'm trying to determine if this condition would create a combustible concealed space per Section 8.15 of NFPA 13 (2013 edition). The section touches on the construction of structural elements, but not really the construction of the ceiling itself.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to verify the supporting structure of the ceiling as is difficult to access above due to its age and level of ornate detail. I also question the feasibility of being able to protect above this ceiling for those reasons. If the space is considered a combustible concealed space and the preference is to omit sprinklers from the space, is the course of action at that point to increase the hydraulically remote area to 3,000 sf and omit protection? Thanks everyone! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I wanted to pose the question on hazardous material storage lockers. We wish to protect the locker in accordance with Chapter 14 of NFPA 30 and have rated it for 4-hours to eliminate the need for fire separation distance to the immediately-adjacent main building as allowed.
The locker will not be structurally attached and will only have flashing connecting the two to keep out the elements, garbage, and animals. The locker will only have people in as necessary to get the liquids out. The main building has a door on the "exterior wall" that opens and "reveals" the 3-hour rated hazardous material locker door, which you have to open to get inside the locker. NFPA 30 2015 handbook Section 14.4.3 denotes that lockers over 1500 sqft should be protected permanent building such as attached buildings or warehouses. Our locker is under the 1500 sqft requirements so therefore I would say we are not a building but a "locker". Therefore, the exterior wall openings allowances of IBC (2015) Table 705.8 would be to the lot line (over 10ft) and not the locker itself (0ft), allowing our client to access the locker from the inside of the main building and not having to go outside to access it from the exterior. I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience or if we should just call it part of the main building and protect it as such and lose the allowances of Chapter 14. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Shout out to the top contributors for February 2022 - thanks for making the forum something special!
When doing an annual test today for large fire pumps with a combined test header, I was told that most inspectors throttle and send water to the pitot gauges by using the butterfly valve inside the pump room and keeping the control valves wide open outside on the test header.
I disagreed with this approach, as my mentor in the industry taught me to first charge the test header and then get your pressures by opening each outside control valve individually to get your pressures. He said this is so that you don't burn up the rubber on the inside test header (normally-closed) butterfly valve. He said it happened to him in the past and then the building owner is left with a leaking test header control valve and the danger and costliness of a test header full of water. Is there a correct way (by code) to get your pitot reading off the hose monsters outside (what I mainly using) or is charging water one way or the other simply a matter of preference? I hope this makes sense. I understand some test header control valves are OS&Y but most all the outside components I come across are the test hose connections that open and close via the gate valve. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're working on an aircraft hanger with a foam system. I can't quite nail this down, as NFPA 409 and the UFC don't spell this out - do the hangar doors need to be open, or closed, in case of a fire or to test the foam system?
Again, don't see any guidance spelled out in either standard. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project which requires a water curtain be installed on both sides of the glass due to it being the wall down a corridor.
My questions are - (1) does this type coverage require a valve and separate pipe network or can it come off the base building wet system branch lines? Also, can these same sprinklers be used to cover the corridor as well? NFPA-13 Section 11.3 doesn't spell this out, so I'm not sure. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I understand the limits for what is allowed, but how do you actually determine what air pressure your sprinkler systems needs to be set at?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a project where the Architect is very particular about the placement of ceiling components, including sprinkler heads. The idea is to line up diffusers, lights, sprinkler heads, smoke detectors etc. The problem is, in several locations, their preferred location will place heads more than 15 feet apart. The obvious solution for him is to require the heads more than 15 feet apart to be extended coverage type.
From a practical standpoint, it doesn't make sense to scatter extended coverage heads throughout the project as it becomes an installation and maintenance (heads that down the road needing replacement may be replaced with standard coverage by mistake) nightmare. Is there anything in the code preventing the installation of extended coverage and standard coverage heads of the same style (i.e. concealer style) in the same area? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a minimum distance requirement between a unit heater and a diesel fuel tank within a fire pump room?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When calculating a sprinkler system using the area/density method, I have heard several schools of thought:
I tend to go with the most demanding as I don't worry about bidding projects most of the time, but in short, I was wondering what the consensus was concerning validity of each of these methods. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 does not allow ESFR protection for shelf or bin box storage. I can see the logic, and this has been in the code for years.
However, FM Data Sheet 8-9 does allow ESFR protection for shelf and bin box. I can protect shelving up to 15-feet with 0.85 over 2,500 sqft but I can't protect it with K25 at 70 psi. Any insights on the logic here? Has testing been done that supports this one way or another? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The IBC Table 722.6.2(1) states that 1/2" gypsum has a fire resistance rating (FRR) of 15-minutes, while 3/8" OSB (the product used for TJI joist webs) is 5-minutes.
NFPA 13-2019 Section 19.3.3.1.5.2(4) Item (10) discusses an exception to hydraulically calculating the system at 3,000 sqft remote area if joist channels are firestopped into volumes not exceeding 160 cubic feet. Most volumes created by composite wood joists are much smaller than the 160 cubic feed stated in the standard, which means that gypsum board would only be required every 4th- or 5th- joist in most situations. However, would the 3 or 4 layers of 3/8" OSB (the web of each joist) across 3- or 4-bays meet the equivalent of the 1/2" gypsum requirement? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe There's a project in our jurisdiction that is a warehouse with a detached fire pump building.
They are proposing to feed the controller for the diesel fire pump (in the detached fire pump building) from the service in the main warehouse building. Are there any relevant fire codes or standards that require the controller to be fed from a separate service? Or, at least fed from a service that is "dedicated" to the fire pump building? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Could anyone enlighten me on the purpose of "draft curtains" where mentioned in NFPA 409 (Standard on Aircraft Hangars)?
In particular in the context of sprinkler protection; paragraph A.5.17.3 clearly states that the reason for limiting a draft curtain area to 7,500 sqft (697 m2) is to improve detection and sprinkler response times...." Am I right to assume that the intention is to prevent heat from a fire event from being distributed away from sprinklers above? Would I also be right to say the same thing would apply to smoke from a fire (in respect to fire detection)? Many thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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