A big thank you to those who chimed in during this past month - thanks for making this a more positive and helpful community! Top Contributors for December:
Without access to pricing differences, it can be difficult to make informed decisions when it comes to selecting fire pump controller starting methods. What is the magnitude of cost for each of the fire pump starting methods?
Specifically, I'm interested in Across-the-Line, Wye-Delta Open, Wye-Delta Closed, Soft-Starting and Variable Frequency Drives. Thanks in advance! Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Could someone explain the difference between the different labels of mains? I've heard the loose terms feed mains and cross mains but I can't seem to find anywhere these are defined. Any help is appreciated!
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Are flow meters for fire pump testing ever mandatory? Or are they only provided as a convenience to the owner so that fire pump testing does not have to discharge significant amounts of water to the outside?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Was there ever a time when fire department connections were not required for fire sprinkler systems? I have some private campus buildings that don't have a fire department connection. Some have a single site connection that feed multiple buildings, but others don't appear to have one at all. Just curious if there was ever a code justification for this.
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Is there any situation where travel distance is not measured using right angles and travel parallel/orthogonal to walls? Also, how close must travel distance be measured from adjacent walls?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe What is the lowest demand pressure and flow you've come across for an ESFR system?
Looking big-picture at owner storage options early in a project (when we might have an idea on available pressure but don't yet have a plan to work from), the minimum flow and pressure we've come across as a minimum was 73 psi at 1,450 gpm. It was using (12) K25.2 sprinklers at 15 psi (minimum storage heights and a 250 gpm hose allowance). If we don't even have this supply, I typically anticipate a fire pump. Have you seen any demands lower than this? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Have a small five-story restaurant and apartment building (each floor level is only 3,000 sqft), and it's under NFPA 13-2010. Is each floor level of the sprinkler system required to have it's own isolation valve and flow switch?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe What closeout documents should contractors supply at the end of a fire sprinkler installation?
The ones we typically expect to see are (1) as-builts, (2) test certificate for aboveground pipe, (3) test certificate for underground pipe, and then (4) warranty and product data for the owner. Are we missing anything? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Where does the requirement for a post-indicating valve originate? If I only have a sprinkler system, is a post-indicating valve required?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Would you consider a kitchen with only an oven/stovetop unit in a primary residential building to be considered Light or Ordinary Hazard for sprinkler protection?
NFPA 13 annex material states that commercial kitchens should be considered OH1, while "Residential" areas are Light Hazard. Interested in others' input on this. Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe When a backflow preventer needs to be replaced, can the two isolation valves remain in place, closed, and only the center body of the backflow be inserted in-between these isolation valves?
Would this violate the listing on the assembly if it's a one-for-one replacement? If the backflow is listed as an entire assembly, then it seems as though an additional isolation valve on the supply-side of the backflow preventer would often be needed to shut off the system just in order to replace the backflow preventer. Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe What is the maximum throw for a horizontal sidewall sprinkler? Just looking for a typical extended coverage sprinkler, not a dry-type.
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe There's a jurisdiction that is considering requiring "Fire Fighter Air Replenishment System" or as I understand it a standpipe-for-air system. Has anyone designed these systems?
The International Fire Code (Appendix L) provides requirements for the system - my only concern is the size and storage of pressurized oxygen tanks either in or near the stairwells and the potentially increased hazard they could be in a fire. Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Many fire pump arrangements I've seen include flanged fittings and pipe connections on the suction side of the fire pump. Is there a requirement for this?
Are grooved connections allowed for pipes and fittings on the suction side of the pump assembly? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe My company has recently re-evaluated how we take measurements onsite in the hope that we can find better/faster solutions than running tape measures to nearby structure. We create shop/installation drawings, to precision in measuring parts of existing systems is important.
What do you use when on job sites? Tape? Laser Measure? 360 cameras? Has anyone had any luck using laser scanners or photometrics for measurements? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe A fire marshal is requesting a wall hydrant on the backside of a project where there is limited access. Is there a prescriptive flow that needs to be calculated at this location?
This project is considered a high-rise (8 stories) and does have a fire pump. He has already requested there be 100 psi available at the wall hydrant. Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe A big thank you to those who chimed in during this past month - thanks for making this a more positive and helpful community! Top Contributors for November:
We're looking into some basic-level risk assessment for an owner, and I'm seeking any data concerning the actual frequency that fires occur for different types of facilities. For instance - in a 12,000 sqft office building, how likely would a fire be to occur in a year?
Where is a good starting point for gathering this type of information? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Have a dry manual standpipe system that is going to be retrofit along exterior stairs in the southern US. Is there any requirement that would prevent the standpipe from being interconnected underground (not under the building)?
I understand there's difficulties with drainage and access for future repairs, but as a last option is it even permissible by code? Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe I've heard that sprinkler frame arms are typically aligned with the pipe which they're connected. I commonly see this for uprights, but how often is this true for pendents?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe Is the discharge side of a fire pump required to step up to a larger pipe size on the discharge flange of the fire pump? Inspected a pump where there was a flowmeter welded on flanged pipe which was the same size as the discharge flange of the fire pump.
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe. Are sprinklers required to be installed in an escalator pit? The volume is small but I understand there to be hydraulic fluids and equipment in the pit. Has anyone come across this before?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe. There's many code contingencies that depend on a fully-sprinklered building. If a room within a fully-sprinklered building is protected with a clean agent system (per NFPA 2001) and sprinklers are omitted from that room, does the building still meet the criteria to be considered fully protected and qualify for the numerous code contingencies?
Posted anonymously by a member for discussion. Discuss this | Subscribe. Interested in getting the Toolkit and access to all of our tools? Along with printable, downloadable calculators, members also have access to the Sprinkler Database and beta test the new Pump Database.
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