Does sprinkler protection beneath an open grated mezzanine change the ceiling level sprinkler design density?
e have a building with a storage room with a grated mezzanine at 8' AFF. Beneath the mezzanine is Class I-IV storage on shelves to the bottom of the mezzanine and on top of the mezzanine is similar storage to 10' high. NFPA 13 requires sprinkler protection for open grating over 4' in width but there is no indication on if this affects the ceiling sprinkler design as it might for in-rack sprinklers. My feeling is the system would have to be designed as if it was ~18' high storage with heads under the mezzanine that match that density, but I am not sure if this is correct or if there would be a benefit to covering the grating entirely and possibly considering it storage under 12' below and above. Thanks in advance for your take. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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When would you recommend replacing an existing fire pump?
I am working a project where we are renovating a large hotel and the diesel fire pump in the basement is dated 1994. I am aware there is a lifespan but with proper maintenance they can probably operate just fine for a long time. Is 30 years when you would begin to suggest replacing that piece of equipment? Should I make the suggestion to the client that it is best to replace and have them make the final call? Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hi fellows, I have a project which is a building is assembled with 12 containers.
Due to the limited room height, I have to run all pipes along the wall. But my piping problem is how to seismically brace the pipes? Would the container frame and wall, roof be strong enough for the added piping seismic load? And even the branch pipe hanger/restraint installation would be an issue as well. Your tips, insights and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Our State Department of Natural Resources requires a double check on all water based sprinkler systems and an RPZ backflow when additives such as foam or antifreeze are used.
The rule is for containment. Meaning that the first available connection requires the backflow preventer. With the details shown in NFPA 13 there are examples of check valves with a drilled clapper as well as an appropriate backflow preventer in the examples shown appear to be isolation devices. NFPA 13 FIGURE 8.6.3.3 shows a backflow preventer and includes an expansion tank. If the entire building is protected by an RPZ the water department is satisfied. When approaching the antifreeze pipe arrangement FIGURE 8.6.3.3 wouldn’t a swing check without a drilled hole be equal to the backflow preventer? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a set allowance on the fitting angles for sprinkler aboveground pipe? I'm reviewing a couple of projects where I find bends similar to the example below. The designer is using different pipe angles for reticulations. I'm wondering if there is a clause that prohibits such a use.
Appreciate your insight & feedback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Good morning all.
So I'm looking at an Extra Hazard Group 1 (EH1) dry system under NFPA 13 (2016 edition). I want to apply multiple adjustments per 11.2.3.2.7 because I want to use high temperature sprinklers to get me a 25% reduction under 11.2.3.2.6. This can result in the following math: 2,500 * 1.3 for dry system = 3,250 sqft. 3,250 * 0.75 (for 25% reduction) = 2,437.5 sqft. And this always stays above the 2,000 sqft requirement of 11.2.3.2.6 and everyone is happy. But it can also result in the following math happening: 2,500 * 0.75 = 1,875 sqft. 1,875 gets forced into 2,000 sqft because I'm not ever supposed to go below a 2,000 sqft design area under 11.2.3.2.6. So then 2,000 * 1.3 (for dry system) = 2,600 sqft. So would the system have a 2,437.5 sqft design area or a 2,600 sqft design area? Yeah, it's only two sprinklers, but at these densities that can change a system. I can see an argument for either conclusion. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How much engine oil can be stored in a building with an Ordinary Hazard Group 2 (OH2) sprinkler system?
We're working on a repair garage and NFPA 13 (2019) classifies repair garages as OH2 in the appendix. It seems reasonable that some amount of engine oil would be allowed to be stored. However, the NFPA 13 definition of OH2 doesn't allow for flammable/combustible liquids, but EH1 and EH2 allows for some unspecified amount of flammable/combustible liquids. NFPA 13 section 26.2.1 states that sprinkler system discharge criteria for the protection of flammable and combustible liquids shall comply with NFPA 30. NFPA 30 (2021) table 10.7.1 allows for unlimited IIIB liquids to be stored in mercantile occupancies with an OH2 sprinkler system. Can this mercantile section be applied to a storage occupancy? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When testing our flow switch, the first time, it will take 25 seconds before the flow switch activates. When we reset and start over, it takes 5 seconds for the switch to activate.
After waiting an hour to test again, the first test always takes 25 seconds for the switch to activate. Any thoughts on why? This is running on an 8-inch pipe. The flow switch on all of the 6-inch pipes work properly. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A client of ours operates a printing press facility and has installed a machine to collect and form dust into "bricks" to avoid venting them to atmosphere.
The machine is fed by ducts that tap into an existing dust collection system. The client asked for a quote to adjust the overhead sprinkler system because of the new ducts but I think the new ductwork and machine might require suppression of some form, as well as interacting with the existing sprinkler system at the roof. (1) Does NFPA 13 (2016 Edition) Section 11.2.3.2.2.2 indicate that the existing roof system cannot have quick response sprinklers? "Quick-response sprinklers shall not be permitted for use in extra hazard occupancies or other occupancies where there are substantial amounts of flammable liquids or combustible dusts." It's hard to tell from the floor but I believe at least some of the systems have quick response. (2) Is the dust collector ductwork governed by NFPA 13 at all? Section 22.33 Exhaust Systems for Air Conveying of Vapors, Gases, Mists, and Noncombustible Particulate Solids would not seem to apply since the particulate dust is a paper product and inherently combustible. (3) Are dust collector machines like paint booths in that manufacturers pre-coordinate requirements and access for sprinklers into the filter media? Thanks for all the guidance; I haven't seen this application before. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have observed forward-flow tests of backflow preventers, and fire pumps tests, that are conducted through 2.5-inch nozzles identical to the image below, but without the playpipe tip screwed onto the end of the nozzle.
Image Link The pitot reading was taken off the 1-3/4" threaded end of the nozzle where the playpipe tip gets screwed on. Is this approach acceptable, and would the GPM table for the 1-3/4" butt for converting the pitot pressure to flow be acceptable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an existing building which is being retrofit with a sprinkler system.
The building is non-combustible construction (pre-engineered metal building) that has a steel main frame, z-purlins, and below that there was a series of offices built with wood stud walls. The ceiling is hung ACT. Does 6-12 inches of exposed stud walls that extend just above the ACT ceiling then trigger the need for sprinkler protection above the ceiling? In other words, does the amount of wood construction in a ceiling space impact whether or not it's considered a combustible concealed space, and therefore would or wouldn't need protection? I have a gut feel for how I would go about this, but am not looking to skew the discussion at all. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 20 dictates the number and size of hose valves according to the pump rating, but is there any specific requirement on how many are to be used during testing?
How is that determined? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Which sprinklers are appropriate for kitchen fire protection?
What about in a hood versus near a hood? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does the IFC or NFPA standard dictate if a old system has to brought up to code if a new permit has been issued for a tenant improvement?
For example adding 5 flex drops to an existing system? Seismic , hanger support are the issue. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any code that sets a specified elevation for the the Fire Pump Test Header above outside grade?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have storage of Class I-IV commodity, in racks, with maximum distance from floor to top of storage of 12-ft with 10-ft aisles and roof deck at 25-ft.
The AHJ correctly asserts that this storage is not incidental to the occupancy and therefore cannot be considered as "miscellaneous storage". Is there a way that these racks can be suppressed with roof-only sprinklers, preferably CMDA or CMSA? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a decision tree, or other wholistic look at what is recommended for fire protection measures for flammable and combustible liquid storage tanks?
Does flashpoint of the liquid impact which system type to pursue? This is specifically for liquid stored in day tanks inside a tank farm, but seeking out guidance here on choosing responsible systems overall. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a small building (less than 47,000 sqft) with basement, ground floor, first floor and roof protected with a sprinkler system. Fire pump room is in the basement.
In NFPA 13-2022, Section 16.9.10.3, there is no need to install floor control valve assembly (no need for sprinkler system either, but client insisted). I've never designed such a small system; and as a result I have a couple questions: (1) Is one flow switch after the fire pump sufficient for all floors? If not, do I need to provide each floor with a flow switch? (2) Is an alarm check valve assembly required? If so, can it be used instead of a waterflow switch, or do we need to install both? Any other tips for a smaller building would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the required pressure for a manual Class III standpipe, 65 or 100 psi?
We're working on a 44'-4" high, 5-story, Type V-B construction building that has a 1-story garage and amenities. The upper floor is R-2. The local code says I can have Class III standpipe. As I go through NFPA 13 and NFPA 14, it circles back around to 2-1/2" outlets, except with 2-1/2" x 1-1/2" reducers and caps. It's going to be fully-sprinklered with a combination standpipe in one stairwell, and just one standpipe riser in the other. Does this sound correct given the project? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project in Geelong, Australia, where the product that is bulk-stored within the building makes for an extremely dusty environment when it is unleaded.
Sprinkler protection is proposed to protect the building - but I wanted to ask the question about "excessive loading of sprinklers". What's the best option to minimize the loading on the sprinkler? NFPA 25 mentions this, of course, but our code in Australia does not mention this term but does state that the sprinklers need to be visually checked annually, and suggests that a more stringent maintenance routine be in place for these environments. The bulk product is phosphate rock and it typically used for the fertilizer manufacturing plant across the road. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a rehab of a two story with a walk out basement where they are going to expand the basement level and make it mercantile with the two upper floors being R-2.
This is Type V-B construction and they are proposing to 1-hour horizontal to separate the mercantile from the R use. They are wanting to use the standpipes as their sprinkler risers. My question is three-fold: 1. Can they sprinkler the entire building with 13R, or 2. Can they omit sprinklers completely in the mercantile if they separate from the R use by 1-hour (the mercantile by itself would not require sprinkler protection, 3. Can they sprinkler the mercantile with 13 and the R use 13R without a rated separation? I am an AHJ and only wanting to require what the Code requires. I am having trouble deciphering the requirements. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a fire department connection required on a new construction, 2-story, 30-ft tall, four-unit wood-framed building?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We're working on a one-story school. The AHJ (Fire Marshal) is requiring inside 2 1/2-inch hose valves at the exit locations.
These hose valves are fed directly off the wet sprinkler system main - not fed from a dedicated standpipe main. 1. I'm having trouble finding code regarding feeding hose valves off of the wet system main. 2. I'm trying to determine if the pipe, off the main, to these hose valves, needs a control valve installed. Appreciate the tips and insight. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are flexible couplings required at riser for vertical support?
My project has a vertical support for a 30-ft long 6-inch riser. I used a riser clamp with two wall-mounted welded brackets to provide vertical load hanger at about 20-ft AFF. The inspector commented that I have to provide a flexible coupling above and below within 24" of the point of attachment. His reasoning is: 18.2.3.1(6) NFPA 13 2022 edition (6) Within 24 in. above and 24 in below any intermediate points of support for a riser or other vertical pipe. Anyone has suggestion for better way to put a vertical support at the riser? Is one ATR hanger at the top of the riser sufficient? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello everyone. Looking to get some feedback on a building under construction.
I have a 3-story condo building with 4 stairwells, protected by an NFPA 13 sprinkler system. The condo building is exterior access via corridor which connects the stairwells and is about 20 units total. There is a single fire sprinkler riser that enters one of the stairwells at the corner of the building and goes vertical to serve all levels. Overall, fairly typical. Currently, the building is nearing the end of construction and they’re installing drywall. However, a new Fire Inspector is asking for “more standpipes”, despite the fact that the building does not have standpipes, nor are standpipes required (3 stories, none below grade, and below height threshold to the top floor, etc.) The reason he is requiring them is because he is saying per NFPA 14, you cannot exceed ~200 feet in between standpipes. However, because the building does not require standpipes in the first place, this code section does not seem to make sense. Of course, I know the AHJ is allowed to require things above and beyond the code but my big issue is that the building is about 80% complete now, and he asked for this on a typical inspection. The design criteria, FP shop drawings, civil plan, etc. were all approved by other inspectors/ AHJ / Reviewers, and has been for a couple of years. I noticed he seems to be intermixing the word “Standpipe” and “Fire Riser” frequently which makes conversations more difficult. Just looking for some other opinions on this issue and I appreciate any input at all. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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