We have a project light hazard occupancy, that is a highrise building, and has glass all along the perimeter of the building.
Is the maximum sprinkler spacing measured off the knee wall, or the glass? There is a knee wall that rises up from the floor 2'-6" and is 12-inches in depth. Do we measure the 7'-6" off this knee wall for floor coverage, or do we measure off the glass for the maximum distance? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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For a fire department connection that is remote (freestanding) from the building, what is the minimum distance between the building and the remote fire department connection?
I've seen some authors recommend a distance equal to the building height, but others recommend half the building height. Is there a code or standard reference that indicates this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a four-story hotel project to design that has bathrooms in the guest suites. These bathrooms measure out to 55.4 sqft per the architectural drawings of the bathrooms.
I am getting pushback from individuals as I don't feel this complies with NFPA 13-2016 Section 8.15.8.1.1's exception, and therefore it would require sprinklers. I interpret the 55 sqft threshold as 55.00 sqft, or am I interpreting this incorrectly and should allow sprinklers to be omitted as long as the square footage does not break into the 56-sqft threshold? The exception also states 5.1 square meters, which converts to 54.89 sqft, which to me, reinforces my 55.00 sqft threshold. What are your thoughts and feedback? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the proper approach to classify a storage container that could be filled with any handful of miscellaneous materials?
We have a project and can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone, including the local plan reviewer. These are basically 8-foot tall steel shipping containers that are pod-type portable storage units, where people can load their belongings into them and these pods get collected inside this warehouse until the original owners need them. The existing warehouse building has a CMDA system, designed at 0.38 gpm over 2,000 sqft. Has anyone here had experience going about classifying these shielded hazards with non-defined storage inside? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do I go about designing protection below a dome?
We have a church project, and the dome is 30'-0" in diameter and is about 15'-0" high. It's basically a hemisphere. Looking for tips/guidance/creativity on getting this one started. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a customer that has a paint storage facility. All the liquids are Class III-B and stored at a maximum height of 6-ft with a minimum 8-ft aisle.
Does anyone have helpful information/guidance information for designing spill containment and coordinating ventilation requirements for a space like this? I know containment is touched on in NFPA 30 - but I'm looking for some more in-depth guidance to get started. Thanks in advance. Around here we're all about promoting the industry by bringing together a community of experts and sharing best practices. It's too important of an industry not to promote. With that goal in mind, we have a happy announcement today. Here are our 2021 Top Ten Contributors to the Forum! These experts have regularly shared quality expertise through the year and have helped countless people, like myself, learn a little more each day. Some days I learn a lot. This Forum wouldn't be what it has become today without all of the contributors - especially these professionals who we would like to thank and celebrate today: We'll be shipping a Top Contributor Plaque to each of the Top Ten Contributors as a small thank you for contributing to the conversations that do nothing but help our industry grow and improve. Thank again for a fantastic year around here!
Is it possible (maybe someone has encountered this already) to trigger a false alarm on a VESDA system or photoelectric smoke detector from refrigerant discharge mixture that contains both refrigerant and oil?
I'm concerned about the combination possibly affecting the fire alarm system. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have submitted plans for a new shoe store in an existing mall. The entire space is about 4,400 sqft and the stock room is 840 sqft with full-height walls.
The plans reviewer is requiring us to revise and resubmit using the calculation method in NFPA 13, 2016 Edition, citing Section A.23.4.4.2. We are coming up short and the main (distribution pipe) is limited to 6". Does this requirement seem reasonable? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a distillery with H-3 occupancy. They will have one (1) stainless steel 100 gallon tank (never full) of 65% alcohol for distilling whiskey.
They plan to have maximum 6-ft storage of approximately 25-gallons maximum of finished product in bottles on shelves. Also planned is approximately thirty (30) 30-gallon wood barrels stacked (2) high in adjacent areas I am seeing a lot of exceptions in IBC and IFC for the wooden barrels with the H-3 Occupancy. Can you provide any insight to this allowance for wood barrels and how I might determine the proper sprinkler density and maximum volume (if any with the H-3)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe One of the consultants on my project provided a review comment requiring us to submit a calculation for stress in the hanger support.
We follow NFPA 13 here, and I've never provided something like this. What exactly are they asking here, and is there guidance on how would I go about calculating the stress in the hanger components? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a commercial pool be used as the required secondary water supply to a high-rise sprinkler system?
The 2019 IBC/CBC Section 403.3.3 requires an automatic secondary water supply in certain seismic design categories. This is typically met by installing a dedicated tank that meets the minimum demand for 30 minutes. I have a developer asking if they can run a feed line to their 100k +/- gallon commercial pool so it can serve this purpose. Outside of the engineering challenges and value engineering their team must address, I'm wondering if this arrangement is even allowed. I cannot find anything in IBC/CBC, NFPA 24, NFPA 13, etc. that wouldn't allow this. Any help is appreciated. What is maximum distance above a ceiling before concealed-space sprinklers have to be installed?
I can't find the code reference, but seems like there was a 3-foot maximum if it was non-combustible with insulation on the pipe? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm an AHJ seeking training material on deluge sprinkler systems - particularly for acceptance testing.
Does anyone have a source for manufacturer-specified (or other) testing procedures that you could share? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are trying to confirm sprinkler design criteria for a liquor company that has alcohol in boxes and on pallets.
The liquor is 100-proof alcohol. Trucks come in and unload in one area, where these are stacked one-high. Then, they are moved to another area and loaded on a different truck. They are not there for a long period of time. NFPA 13-2013 calls this out as a Class IV for alcohol 100-proof or less. This project being under 12-foot high with high-temperature sprinklers, is the design criteria of 0.30 over 2,000 sqft acceptable? The AHJ uses the 2019 edition of NFPA 13 and we can't find anything in there or in NFPA 30 that is similar, unless I'm missing something. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on a 4-story multifamily structure.
The structure has one common entrance, but is comprised of four separate buildings on four separate lots, all on the same city block. There is a fire separation between each building. I've been trying to find code language indicating that each building is required by code to have a separate fire alarm system, but have not found anything remotely definitive. Would appreciate code reference/help here. Most likely going to request a variance to use one system across all four buildings, but for my personal edification would really appreciate an appropriate IBC or NFPA 72 code reference. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm currently designing for an addition to an existing pre-action system. This existing pre-action system (with three existing pre-action valves) and is connected to a 130 cubic-foot nitrogen cylinder.
How can I calculate if this much nitrogen would be enough if I added in another preaction valve? Do I need to calculate the volume of all the pipes downstream of the preaction valve? What other information should I gather? How much percentage of the piping downstream of the valve needs to be filled with nitrogen? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an oil storage warehouse project requiring a ceiling density of 0.60 gpm/sqft over 3,000 sqft.
This is basically 30 sprinklers using 1,900 gpm (sprinklers), and 500 gpm (for hoses). The municipal system is set up with three pumps that run sequentially based on residual system pressure. Each pump is larger than the last. We require Pump 3 to be in operation in order to get the required flow and pressure. We have conducted a flow test flowing two hydrants, and have not been able to kick Pump 3 into action. Assuming a K16.8 sprinkler has a 3/4" orifice, 30 heads would only equal a 4" diameter opening. If we can't activate the appropriate pump by opening multiple hydrants, how will we be able to achieve the required flow during a fire? Has anyone encountered a supply system like this before? I know that a tank and pump is a solution, but I'm looking for other options. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is it possible to calculate the travel time for water, in a dry system, from the source to the furthest part of the dry system when I only have information concerning the system volume?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm performing a shop drawing review of underground concrete storage tanks, to be used for firefighting.
We have six tanks arranged into two rows of three. 12-inch pipes connect the three tanks per row toegether, and one 12-inch pipe connects the two rows at one end. It makes a U-shape flow path down one row, and back up the other. Should two more linking pipes be added to form a complete grid, and allow more paths for water to flow? Should these linking pipes be provided with vortex plates? Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have to move pre-action valves for two different pre-action systems from their original location in the fire riser room to another area of a warehouse. The location where they are inteded to be placed is protected by ESFR sprinklers for high-pile storage hazards.
Is there any requirement to place the valves and panel in this location? Do they have to be placed in a room to avoid mechanical damage, or some type of enclosure? Can they just be in the warehouse without any code violation (we are under both FM and NFPA suppression standards)? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a requirement to monitor a fire pump or fire protection sprinkler riser room's temperature with the fire alarm system?
It is clear from NFPA 72 that the device needs to be added to the fire alarm panel if it is present. NFPA 13, 14, and 20 don't seem to have a need to monitor the room's temperature. From NFPA 72 (2016 Edition): Section 17.16.5 Room Temperature Supervisory Signal - Initiating Device. A room temperature supervisory device shall indicate a decrease in room temperature to 40 degrees (4.4 C) and its restoration to above 40-degrees (4.4 C). Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We need to provide sprinkler protection below the seating area of a hockey rink.
The frame for each seat is 2'-10" wide, and 2'-0" high, and slopes down towards the ice rink. The floor area covered varies depending upon the location and ranges from 5-ft to 15-ft. Our designer has shown sidewall sprinklers with the deflector parallel with the slope, at the high point of the underside of the bowl. The problem is the deflector needs to be more than 2'-0" below the frame in order to not be obstructed by the seating risers below. Obviously there are no sidewall sprinklers approved for this arrangement. If we use uprights instead of sidewalls, these will also need to be more than 2'-0" below the framing and I don't see this meeting the requirements of obstructed construction (thus allowing us to be 22-inches down to the deflector). Is there something in the code that will allow us to cover this area with upright sprinkerls, 22-inches below the framing, with deflectors parallel to the slope? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I don't deal with storage in fire protection systems - but I have a question regarding different storage arrangements.
When does a system have to have in-rack sprinklers? Are there always alternative solutions that an owner can use to avoid in-rack sprinklers? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can you run sprinkler pipe underground after the riser has entered the building?
The building we're working on is an apartment building that is being sprinklered to NFPA 13R (2016 Edition). The apartment is 4-story and has open air breezeways. There are dry sidewalls protecting the breezeways. The owner wants to run pipe under the slab in the open air breezeways instead of providing a heated path for sprinkler pipe across the breezeway. I have strongly recommended against this, but have gotten pushback from the owner and contractor regarding this pipe arrangement. Is this underground arrangement allowed? I believe there are some cases where this is acceptable but not many. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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